June 29, 2025
The 5-Step Method to Reinvent Your Classroom in the AI Era with Dr. Matthew Metzgar
Welcome to episode 34 of the Designing with Love podcast! In this episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Matthew Metzgar, an expert in the higher education field and the author of a new book titled The Overnight AI Educator: Transform Your Course in 24 Hours.
Dr. Matthew Metzger explores how AI is transforming education and shares his innovative five-step approach to help educators adapt their courses for this new reality. He discusses his journey from discovering students using ChatGPT on exams to developing a comprehensive framework for integrating AI ethically and effectively into higher education.
Some of the elements we discussed in the episode include:
• Identifying skills in demand using AI research to ensure coursework aligns with workplace requirements
• Creating realistic assignments that are more resistant to AI shortcuts by making them practical and concise
• Supporting learner development with AI-generated resources like podcasts, videos, and digital twins
• Providing efficient feedback using simplified rubrics and exploring AI-assisted grading
• Iterating gradually by implementing small changes each semester rather than overwhelming overhauls
• Shifting the educator's role from content delivery to evaluation and guidance
• Motivating students through realistic, workplace-relevant assignments
• Embracing diverse perspectives by allowing students to use various AI tools rather than instructor-limited chatbots
• Normalizing AI as an educational tool through open discussions with students
Please visit Dr. Metzger's website, The Overnight Educator, to find current AI tools for education and information about his book "The Overnight Educator: Transform Your Course in 24 Hours."
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00:00 - Introduction to Dr. Metzger
01:26 - AI's Impact on Student Performance
04:45 - The 5-Step Overnight Cycle
12:20 - Creating Realistic AI-Proof Assignments
17:59 - Supporting Learners with AI Tools
27:50 - Efficient Feedback Strategies
36:54 - Shifting Role of Educators
43:09 - Advice for AI-Curious Educators
WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to the Designing with Love podcast.
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I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you information, tips and tricks as an instructional designer.
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Hello, GCU students, alumni and educators, welcome to episode 34 of the Designing with Love podcast.
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Today, I have the pleasure of interviewing Dr Matthew Metzger, an expert in higher education and the author of a new book titled the Overnight Educator.
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Transform your Courses in 24 Hours.
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Welcome, Dr Metzger Hi.
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Jackie, thanks for having me.
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Thank you.
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So would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?
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Sure, I'm a clinical professor of economics at the Bell College of Business at UNC, charlotte.
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I've been there coming on maybe 15 years, and I worked in the private sector before that, with some consulting and other jobs, and most of my focus lately has been on education and teaching techniques and, of course, ai.
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Great, yes, and we know AI is just.
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It's in all sectors right, and especially education.
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So it's exciting, definitely.
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It's a seismic shift.
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That's for sure it really is how sudden, how much changes it's causing and how adaptable people have to be.
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It's just amazing, amazing, how much impact it's causing and how adaptable people have to be.
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It's just amazing, amazing how much impact it's having.
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Absolutely yes.
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So what inspired, you to write your new book, and why now?
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Well, I tell you I was a little late to the AI party, so to speak, because I started hearing about it and other people were saying you know, look into it, all that, and I kind of just put it off to the side.
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But then last year in my classes, you know, my students started using AI and then, you know, magically, these test averages started going up and up and up and the time to complete the exams are going down.
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And so, you know, I start to ask the students what's going on and everything like that.
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I surveyed them and most of them were using ChatGPT.
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And then I got a little more serious about the tool myself and I realized I really had to change everything because the assessments I was using were no longer valid.
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And then, once you change those assessments, everything else has to change as well.
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You know, as far as what you're teaching for and the structure and so on and so forth, transformed my course.
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But other professors in the same boat and a lot of people were looking for answers and you know asking me and you know other faculty.
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You know I presented at some conferences on this and said you know lots of questions because it's so new and there isn't just, you know, one answer out there, but I feel like I have a good enough grasp and I've had some success that I wanted to share that with others and say, look, here's a way you can think about it, here's a process you can use that can hopefully allow you to be successful.
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Wow, that's great.
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And so that way they're not shying away from it, but they're embracing it.
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And I know some of the faculty I work with it's hard because they want to embrace it but they're scared, they don't know how to do that.
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And if they open it up, what is that going to cause, right?
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So and I'm glad you mentioned about the curriculum we can't just go and change one thing and then not have a ripple effect on everything else.
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So it's so important with me working in curriculum design, I always mention that to the faculty that we work with when we go and revise the curriculum.
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If you want to take a topic out, well that's going to cause a shift and it's going to cause changes.
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So being able to have that in mind is always important, that we can't just take something out and then not have something be affected somewhere.
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So it's important.
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Absolutely.
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I mean with something like this that you know, again, it's affecting all pieces of it because you know it can affect the materials you can produce as a teacher.
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You can use AI, you can use AI for grading, your students can use AI to help on assignments, and so it's affecting all the different parts on the student side and the teacher side, and so if you change one thing, the other pieces have to change as well.
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There was I don't know if you saw in the news I can't remember what school it was but a student wanted a refund on her tuition because she said her professor didn't want them to use AI.
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But then they found out he was using AI to produce notes and things like that oh my gosh.
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So she asked for this tuition back or something.
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He was in the news last week.
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Oh wow, that is interesting.
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If you're going to use that as a teacher, you have to allow your students to use it.
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Right.
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It's almost like that saying goes if you don't allow them to use it, they'll find a way somehow to use it, and they'll do backdoor channels and things like that, and so they'll find a way somehow to utilize it and try to be smart about it.
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So it's better to at least expose them to it while they're in school and while they're getting their education, and then by the time they get to the workforce it's not going to be foreign to them, and so I think, as educators, it's something we can do to help prepare them for that and learn how to do it in an ethical way as well.
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So that way they translate it to the workplace, that way.
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It really is.
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You know we had you know Charlotte's a pretty big city and as far as business and all that and we had some business leaders come in and speak to us and so you know I asked are you guys using AI in your companies?
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And they all 100% said yes, you know, so it's not theoretical or this is something we're going to do in a few years.
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You know these are all major companies.
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You know that are all using AI every day in multiple projects and so you know if a student, graduates and all they've used chat GPT for was the copy and paste exam questions, like multiple choice exam questions, you know you haven't done them.
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You know any service.
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You know you want to prepare them, like you said.
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You know here's how to use that tool in an ethical and a productive way.
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You know it's supposed to make people more productive.
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You know here's how to use that tool in an ethical and a productive way.
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You know it's supposed to make people more productive.
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You know at work and in other situations.
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So you've got to show students here's how you can use it to make yourself more productive and to help whatever company or organization you're going to work for.
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Right, absolutely Great.
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I love that.
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So can you walk us through your five-step overnight cycle for AI driven course design that you outlined in your new book coming up?
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Yeah, and you know the when you talk about that fear part earlier, I mean that definitely is something I thought about, you know, when writing the book, because you know if you look at surveys why faculty might be reluctant to make a change.
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You know one is time.
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You know the majority of faculty are actually, you know, part-time in some way and so they may be working other jobs and don't have a ton of time to, you know, put into a course, might just be teaching one or two courses.
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So time's a factor.
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You know the way you've done things is a factor.
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If you've been teaching this class for 20 years a certain way you might be reluctant to change.
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And then three, like you said, the fear part.
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You know well.
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You know what do I do with this.
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You know it's always that fear that the students are going to be way more advanced than the teacher at it and so maybe just forget about it and kind of put your head in the sand.
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So I was trying to make a real simple process.
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You know that faculty could go through in a fairly quick way and I think if it's, the more structured it is and you know if it can be done in a short period of time, the more likely someone's going to do it.
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Absolutely so if you say, here, we want you to integrate AI in your course, it's going to take you six months, well, you know, you might have some people disappear.
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Right, that's so true, especially, as you said, with most of them teaching part-time, like myself, where you know I have a full-time job and then I do this on the side for extra income and also for an opportunity to be able to stay current in the field as well.
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So there's multiple factors why.
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You know we have a lot of adjunct faculty that teach courses at universities.
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Yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah, and so definitely a lot of thought about designing that product, so to speak, for the audience.
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But yeah, as far as the five steps, it's a little bit of a backwards design from Grant Wiggins.
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He called it Understanding by Design, I don't know if you're familiar with it probably some of you are but I always was a fan of his.
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He passed away in 2017 or something, but he had a lot of writing and books and a lot of great ideas, and so that backwards design.
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It always stuck with me through the years as a good way to think about your curriculum or your class is start with the end goal in mind, and so that end goal is like we talked about.
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You know, students are going to graduate and go to work for an organization or company and be expected to use AI right away.
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You know most of these jobs are using AI.
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Now, if you look at, microsoft did a survey last year and showed, you know, the majority of workers I don't know 75, 80% are using AI, and I'm sure it's gone up in a year since.
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You know I think the new report will come out soon this year so they're entering that environment where AI is part of it, and so you've got to train them for that.
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So that first step is looking at the skills in demand and, coincidentally, you can use AI, chat, gpt, whatever tool you want to help you do that, and so if you're teaching like in my case, economics or different course, biology, chemistry, whatever.
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You can just go into chat GPT and say you know, chat GPT has that deep research capability, depending on your plan or whatever.
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And you can say you know, survey current job ads and tell me what are the main skills in demand, not just AI, but just you know all the main skills and so you know you can do that fairly quickly.
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And what you'll find often is that you know, yes, ai technology is in there, but as AI has become able to do some of these quantitative things, those other skills about you know presenting, communicating, you know working with others on teams, kind of those like evergreen type skills have become even more important.
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And so you know, if you pull up a job ad, you know today, for whatever this is a biologist, there'll be all the biology part in there, but it's also a lot about communicating.
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You know presenting, using presenting using Microsoft tools and things like that to present, and so on and so forth.
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Right.
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So that's step one is figure out.
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You know your graduates are going to finish and go into what type of jobs.
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You can also try to speculate a bit and say, all right, well, that's what they may need in 2025.
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But what about these students that are freshmen or graduated in four years?
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And you can try to have a little bit more of a future focus.
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That involves a little more risk and speculation, because no one knows for sure what the job market will look like in four years.
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Yeah, it can be hard to predict the future job market will look like in four years.
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Yeah, it's going to be hard to predict the future, exactly, exactly.
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But I mean again, I would say, still those at least core elements about communication, teamwork, so on and so forth, self-directed learning, are going to be there forever.
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Right those key soft skills, right that they need Definitely, definitely, yeah.
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And so that's step one um again.
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So then you come up with the, the skills in demand, current and future um, and now you're looking at designing the tasks.
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Right, that will, you know, mimic or be similar to those um.
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And this is where it's really changed, because the class I teach it's technically, historically, been a lot of like quantitative work, you know, so like find this optimal price or calculate this cost, and so students would do that.
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Well, now I can do all that very quickly, and so a lot of that quantitative work has been kind of like outsourced, so to speak.
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Oh, wow, quantitative work has been kind of like outsourced, so to speak.
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And so now you have to look at, okay, you become almost the evaluator of the AI results.
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You're making sure it's true.
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So you could say, all right, calculate this elasticity, and it gives you this number, but it may not be right.
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Ai can make mistakes.
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So you don't have to necessarily do the calculation, but you have to know whether it's correct or not and then, if it's incorrect, obviously come up with the right number.
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Oh, so helping students to disseminate the content that's coming out of AI and whether it's correct or not, wow.
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Definitely and it's definitely not always correct.
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I mean, I've done some things, you know, like sample calculations.
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I'll put in there.
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You know calculate this, calculate that, don't give me a wrong number, and then you know I'll write back.
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You know this is not correct, and then it'll write back, you know think and be like, oh yeah, you are right.
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So hold on, let me recalculate.
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Yes, I've done that.
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Oh, I'm sorry, let me try that again.
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It's almost like you're having a conversation with the tool.
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It's pretty interesting.
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Well, as you say, at least it's polite right, Right?
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That's true.
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I wonder if we were rude to it, if it would be rude back.
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I just wonder that sometimes, because I'm always polite Say can you do this please?
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And it'll have that tone, it'll mimic that tone.
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You know that's where that prompt engineering comes into place really well with that.
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So they say what you input will get what you get in the output.
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So right, Absolutely, absolutely and so, yeah, so designing those tasks, the other key pieces I think about is one I try to make it a realistic task as good as I can, because I'm a little afraid.
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You know you can go in AI and say you know, generate this scenario about you know, company X, you know, sells widgets at $2 a widget or something.
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You know sells widgets at $2 a widget or something.
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But I think if it's a fake or artificial problem, a lot of students are then going to just run it through chat GPT because they're going to say, like I don't care about this, it's not real, it's just something he or someone made up.
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Right, you know they're not going to be really motivated to do it, and so I've found that the more realistic problem I can make, the more likely students are to actually try it and not just totally outsource it in some way, like I just gave a task when the semester ended and I ran it through Chet GPT myself to see what the answer, what it would give.
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But I didn't have any student groups submit that answer and that's because I think they thought they perceived that test to be valuable, saying, hey, this might be something that I would actually do and work at some point, so it'd be a good idea for me to try it now, you know, because it was a real task.
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But if it was just fake, you know, make these widgets or something like that I think you're task, but if it was just fake make these widgets or something like that I think the motivation is going to fall and the odds of cheating, so to speak, go up.
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Wow, that's amazing.
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Yeah, and you're taking it beyond a textbook and putting it in real life for them and something that they can imagine themselves having to face right, a real problem or real situation where they have to come up with a solution in a company.
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Yeah, that's great.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, you know it's like, if you want to, you know whatever, learn how to ride a bike or something you know.
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And if someone tells you just you know, pedal on a stationary bike, you know then you might that's not going to help me, right?
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You know I on a stationary bike, you know, then you might, uh, that's not going to help me, right?
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You know I wouldn't learn how to ride a bike out on the street or on the mountains or whatever.
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So you know you want the practice to be as similar to the real as you can get.
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So you know I pull stuff, you know, from the news.
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You know, the week I'm making the assignment, you know.
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So it might be something that happened two days ago and I'll pull it and make a task out of it, and that way there is no history that someone did this.
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You know, someone solved this problem 10 years ago or something you know.
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It's brand new.
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It's right out there now.
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Wow, I love that.
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That's great.
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So one with the task, I think, one about making them realistic and having them in a good context, and then two, giving them at least the option to work with others.
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Because, again, if you look at work situations, most work now involves other people, whether it's in person or virtual.
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And so I, when the semester starts, the first task I assign the groups of five.
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And then you know, because people may not know each other and all that but then tasks after that, then I open it up and say you can kind of what in economics we call vote with your feet, but you can move.
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You can, you know, leave a group and start a new group, or you can go to a smaller group, or you can work by yourself or whatever.
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But at least give that initial chance for everyone to be in a group.
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Maybe it works, and so on and so forth.
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And then you know, if people are unhappy I give them the option to work in different ways.
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But you know, now that I'm saying this, I should probably calculate what percent of people stayed in the groups, but I'd say it's pretty high, definitely over half.
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I'd probably say two-thirds of people choose to stay with the group, even though they don't have to.
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Obviously it can be easier because you can spread the workload.
00:18:27.471 --> 00:18:55.045
But two, I think you can end up with a better project or product output by working with others than just yourself usually, and so, again, that's given a more of a realistic scenario that if you're at work and you're trying to accomplish X, it's probably going to pay off to get some people to help you with that Right, because otherwise it's a long slog on your own.
00:18:55.808 --> 00:18:56.372
Yes and so.
00:18:56.532 --> 00:18:59.064
I'm trying to get them to think about that as well, right, because otherwise it's a long slog on your own.
00:18:59.104 --> 00:19:13.862
Yes, so I'm trying to get them to think about that as well, right, so that they're not feeling like they have to do all of this in isolation when they get to the workplace, because so much is about collaboration and it's hard to accomplish anything big on your own in the workplace, right?
00:19:13.862 --> 00:19:26.857
It's always about delegating or, like you said, bringing together a team of people that can come up with a solution together and work on that task together, as well, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, great.
00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:28.300
And then let's see.
00:19:28.300 --> 00:19:44.070
The third step is supporting the learner's development, and that's where kind of the typical teaching, so to speak, would come into play, where you know whatever classroom setup you have or an online setup through an LMS and all that.
00:19:44.070 --> 00:19:59.102
But I'd say the other piece, the biggest change to that with AI, is that AI can help you develop all of this, all of these resources now to help learners on their journey.
00:19:59.102 --> 00:20:09.424
If you have notes on a topic that you yourself, the instructor, wrote, you can have AI turn that into a podcast.
00:20:09.424 --> 00:20:11.457
There's tools out there to do that.
00:20:11.457 --> 00:20:14.559
Or you can have it turned into a video.
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:34.257
There's digital twinning now maybe call it something different, but it's where you only have to record a couple minutes of yourself on video and then you can give it a Word document and it'll now create a video of you saying these things that you've never said.
00:20:35.060 --> 00:20:39.415
Oh, wow, yeah, it's called a tool to link out.
00:20:39.435 --> 00:20:43.144
there is a HeyGen H-E-Y-G-E-Ncom.
00:20:43.967 --> 00:20:45.329
Oh, I've heard of that, I've heard of.
00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:47.174
Heygen, I haven't used it yet, but I've heard of it.
00:20:47.797 --> 00:20:54.436
Yeah, it just creates a digital twin and so you could have yourself talking about whatever physics, biology, you know something you don't know nothing about.
00:20:54.436 --> 00:20:58.882
That wouldn't be good, but I'm just saying it's a.
00:20:58.882 --> 00:21:01.506
It's a that type of tool, you know.
00:21:01.506 --> 00:21:04.041
There's all sorts of tools out there like that I said.
00:21:04.041 --> 00:21:11.923
The one other cool thing about digital twinning is it can also translate what you say into a different language.
00:21:12.730 --> 00:21:13.555
Oh, I've heard about that.
00:21:14.009 --> 00:21:32.750
Yeah, and so if you have, you're teaching a class, you know overseas or something and you don't speak that language, you could, you know, have it, create a video of you saying your normal notes in that language for those learners, and so you can just create a whole bunch of resources quickly that you, you know, couldn't do before.
00:21:32.750 --> 00:21:45.063
You know, with AI, you know you can create podcasts, notes, visuals, again videos, digital twins, all sorts of stuff out there to help the learners get the material.
00:21:45.750 --> 00:21:45.951
Wow.
00:21:45.951 --> 00:21:58.863
So that opens up institutions that are doing online education, like Grand Canyon University, to be able to offer the courses to students that are outside of the United States, too.
00:21:58.863 --> 00:21:59.884
More often.
00:21:59.884 --> 00:22:25.165
I've only had, I think, two students that have been outside the United States because they're in the military or they work on a military base or something like that, so it's been rare, but it would be nice to be able to tap into more of the international students abroad and get to learn from them and their culture and things like that and how they perceive higher education where they are too.
00:22:25.165 --> 00:22:27.021
So it would be neat for sure.
00:22:27.807 --> 00:22:28.089
Absolutely.
00:22:28.089 --> 00:22:30.753
I think there's tremendous potential for what you said.
00:22:30.753 --> 00:22:37.525
That can really open up a lot of doors and make it accessible to a lot more people than previously.
00:22:38.309 --> 00:22:38.510
Right.
00:22:38.510 --> 00:22:40.959
Break down those barriers Right.
00:22:41.349 --> 00:22:42.310
Yeah, absolutely.
00:22:43.191 --> 00:23:01.003
And then the other piece I'd say with the supporting learners is honestly, even if you give your students all these different resources, they may choose on their own to just go with a conversational AI agent and I know a lot of my students do that and I build in on the website.
00:23:01.365 --> 00:23:05.488
We have Google Gemini on campus, a co-pilot.
00:23:07.230 --> 00:23:15.003
I kind of build that into pages and with a textbook and all that, just that some students are going to be more comfortable learning about that topic.
00:23:15.306 --> 00:23:25.142
So if you say I want to learn about, you know, price discrimination or something, well they can just put it in to their agents, they tell me about it and go back and forth.
00:23:25.142 --> 00:23:39.977
And so I think the interactive content or setups like that obviously are going to be probably more ups like that obviously are going to be probably more palatable to students than a lot of the one way stuff.
00:23:39.977 --> 00:23:49.003
You know, I think these the days of just sitting here listening to this two hour video on the instructor are probably gone or near gone.
00:23:49.003 --> 00:24:07.049
That you know students are going to be looking to get information quicker and more in a back and forth situation with the agents, and so obviously that's led to, you know, instructors building chatbots for their class and maybe just training those chatbots on their materials, only putting it out there.
00:24:07.049 --> 00:24:15.597
But again, even if you don't make a chatbot for your class, students can use any AI platform to get at that same information.
00:24:16.821 --> 00:24:20.203
So that's good to know, definitely, I would say one thing on that.
00:24:20.203 --> 00:24:35.144
That kind of a question comes up when, cause we talked about, you know, faculty trying to new faculty that are maybe hesitant to do this and sometimes they might feel like, well, I have to make a chat bot for my class and I don't know how to do that.
00:24:35.144 --> 00:24:38.972
I would say that, again, that's not a requirement.
00:24:38.972 --> 00:24:53.872
You know, if you aren't tech savvy and you don't want to do it or whatever, I would say, just you know, skip it and let them use existing chatbots that are out there, because you can create a chatbot to focus only on your.
00:24:53.872 --> 00:24:56.942
You know the materials that you have, that you've written or whatever.
00:24:56.942 --> 00:25:05.261
But in my mind that's a little bit of what I'd call like in economics, like creating a monopoly.
00:25:06.183 --> 00:25:13.705
Like in other words I don't want the students to only be dependent on just the way I personally see things.
00:25:13.705 --> 00:25:23.269
You know, I might explain it this way, I might think of it this way, but someone else may explain it this way, and in a chatbot they're getting a different explanation.
00:25:23.269 --> 00:25:28.282
And so, like for me, I did not train my chatbot on just my stuff.
00:25:28.282 --> 00:25:30.387
I just said I just made a general.
00:25:30.387 --> 00:25:38.923
You know, it's based off a copilot and I would get different type of answers this semester than I would previously in a good way semester than I would previously.
00:25:38.923 --> 00:25:49.451
In a good way, because before it's like they were, I was almost teaching them to think like me, and so the answers would be answers like I would produce.
00:25:50.270 --> 00:26:00.617
But you know, you want a little more diversity of thought, I think, and so you want diversity of sources, and so sometimes they give me an answer that really surprised me and it's like, oh, that's cool, it's a different way of thinking of it.
00:26:00.617 --> 00:26:06.261
It's not wrong, it's just different.
00:26:06.261 --> 00:26:09.308
And so, you know, sometimes I would be like, oh, you know, that's cool, you know, I've learned something.
00:26:09.308 --> 00:26:16.346
So I think it pays to have more sources than just your own to the students Because, again, each person's limited.
00:26:16.346 --> 00:26:23.734
You can only know so much, and it's better for them to get a diversity of opinions on something than just what the instructor says.
00:26:24.395 --> 00:26:25.056
Oh, I love that.
00:26:25.056 --> 00:26:36.903
That's a great way to look at it too when it comes to these types of tools, and that it's yeah, you don't want to shoehorn them into one thing, but you want them to have that diverse way of thinking.
00:26:36.903 --> 00:26:37.365
I like that.
00:26:37.365 --> 00:26:38.268
That's great.
00:26:39.510 --> 00:26:40.152
Yeah, yeah.
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