June 8, 2025
Navigating the Instructional Design Journey with Caroline Amberson
Welcome to episode 31 of the Designing with Love podcast! In this episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing Caroline Amberson, an educator who is currently completing the Master of Science in Instructional Design program at Grand Canyon University (GCU).
What happens when a veteran educator with decades of classroom experience decides to formalize their instructional design skills? In this enlightening conversation, Caroline opens up about her journey balancing over 22 years of elementary teaching with a master's program in instructional design at GCU.
Whether you're considering a master's in instructional design, curious about educational technology, or wondering how classroom teaching experience translates to other contexts, Caroline's journey offers valuable insights into the evolving landscape of educational design. What educational paths might you explore that build upon your existing expertise?
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00:00 - Introduction to Caroline Amberson
02:43 - 22 Years as an Educator and Demo Teacher
06:04 - Museum Educational Outreach Aspirations
11:10 - Expanding Knowledge in Adult Learning
18:23 - Technology Tools in Education
23:41 - Tips for GCU's Instructional Design Program
28:38 - Final Thoughts and Experiences from a Veteran Educator
WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to the Designing with Love podcast.
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I am your host, jackie Pellegrin, where my goal is to bring you information, tips and tricks as an instructional designer.
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Hello GCU students, alumni and educators, welcome to episode 31 of the Designing with Love podcast.
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Today I have the pleasure of interviewing Caroline Amberson, who is currently completing her master's program in instructional design at GCU.
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Welcome, caroline.
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Hi Jackie, thanks for having me.
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You're welcome.
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Thank you for coming and doing this interview today.
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So we'll start off with the first question when did you start your master's degree in instructional design here at GCU?
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I actually started this January and it's mid-May as of this recording, so about five months ago.
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Great.
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So you're well along in the program and you're trucking along right, yes, getting your classes done and then great.
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So what aspects of the program are you enjoying the most so far?
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You know, I found that I was a little bit anxious coming into it because I did my undergraduate many years ago and I've had some other graduate experience with different programs and things, but I've never really done a fully online course before, so I was a little concerned that, oh, I'm not sure that I will like the pacing or the platform.
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And the LMS actually has been so streamlined and simple and I am a sucker for a nice user interface and I really think that it's easy to use.
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So I have to say online and being able to, you know, create an organization, organizational system that works for myself has been one of my favorite aspects.
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Yes, it helps when you can have that everything laid out to, where you know what you need to do, how you need to do it, when that really helps, and I think that's one of the things that GCU has done really well is they've laid out the curriculum really well so that that way you go from class to class and you know what to expect in general.
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And that way the only thing that may change is your instructor.
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But you kind of have that idea that two DQs are due each week, one's due on Wednesday, or let's say one's the first one due Monday and the second one's due on Wednesday.
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So you at least have that structure.
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You know assignments are due on Wednesday, so it's nice to have that that nice structure in place.
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And knowing just the patient's always going to be worth a certain amount of points, and so are DQs, and the only thing that may change is assignments.
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You know those vary, so it's nice to have that structure.
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Great.
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Well, that's wonderful.
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So you're always going to be a Lope now.
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Yep, that's great.
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So what kind of work do you currently do right now?
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You know, I'm in kind of an unusual position where I am currently, so this is my 22nd year as a classroom educator.
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I have worked for San Bernardino city unified for a little over two decades Now.
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Uh, I teach at an elementary school right now.
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I have a combination class, so I teach fifth and sixth grade, um, but on top of that, for the last 12 years I've also been a program specialist, so I am a demonstration teacher for my district, which means that not only do I maintain my full time classroom, which is open to guests who want to come observe lessons or see strategies in action, but we also do live recordings in our classrooms of lessons that then post online.
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We also do a lot of instructional design for the district.
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So we have a pretty regular CSTP workshop.
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Cstp is the California Standards for the Teaching Profession, so we do workshops on those for new teachers I present at New Teacher Academy.
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I basically am kind of a jack of all trades.
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The demo teachers all are.
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So if any department in our district says, hey, we really need somebody to come present about blank, then they tap us on the shoulder and, like a superhero, we kind of spin around, activate and then jump right into it Right.
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That's great because it helps to be able to have that on-demand type of skills that you can be able to just jump in and be able to help.
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And you mentioned instructional design.
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So you've got some experience already, you know in that forefront of it and now you're able to kind of take this program and learn some different things that you can apply in the job now.
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So that's great, very much.
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Yes, yeah, that's great.
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Very much.
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Yeah, yeah, that's great.
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So, even though you don't have the title of instructional designer, it's amazing because we can still do instructional design work without having the official title.
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So it's it's kind of like, you know, being a leader.
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We don't have to have the title of a manager or supervisor and we can still be a leader.
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So that's great, that's wonderful.
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So are you?
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So it sounds like you're really happy with what you do.
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So you're probably not looking for work or planning on looking for work as an instructional designer.
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You probably want to stay where you're at, but is that something that maybe, down the road, you would look at going into, maybe as an instructional designer, like maybe in a different industry, higher ed or corporate or anything?
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So for now no, but I started teaching when I was 22 years old and I'm 22 in, so you can do the math.
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But that means I'm also 21 years out from retirement.
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And while I absolutely adore teaching elementary school and I love being a demo teacher I also have to consider like what would future Caroline want If I'm hitting 43rd year?
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Is it possible that I might be exhausted or maybe just burned out or maybe just looked for something new?
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So I want to sort of set up the possibility that there could be something outside, but for right now I'm not necessarily interested in pursuing it if that makes sense, yeah, it does.
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It's not off the table, but it's more like you know I'm good where I'm at, but there's always that possibility.
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That saying goes.
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We should never say never right, because you just never know where life will take you.
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I think too, you know, because I have to create and develop presentations for, you know, my mentees and for other teachers within the district, and then I present them.
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So I've been really hands-on in instructional design for many years, so it does make sense to sort of like formalize some of that education because I had I've been very lucky.
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I actually started this program with a friend of mine who is my grade level partner, but because I had so much graduate experience from similar classes that they were able to carry over the unit.
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So now we're not at the same place in the program anymore because I've already had several of these classes, but I also consider so.
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Before I became a teacher I thought about several different careers and something that always really just struck my fancy was I've been very interested in natural history museums for my whole entire life and I look at some of the educational outreach programs that, living in Southern California, we have some of the most amazing natural history museums in the world, just like right at our doorstep, and I look at their educational outreach programs and I'm very impressed, very curious, and would like to know, hey, if there was ever a time when I felt like, okay, maybe I need a change.
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Or, you know, maybe it's just that you've been doing this for so long and now it's time to look for something new and, you know, try something that you haven't done yet and stretch yourself in a different way.
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That might be something that I'm interested in pursuing as well.
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So with this program I hope to.
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This is, you know, instructional design, and I'm looking at a doctorate, maybe an instructional technology, to sort of move forward and see if that was something that what I would still find interesting and maybe eventually parlay into a career.
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Right, that's great.
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Yeah, that's something I've been kind of looking at too is whether I want to get a doctorate degree or not.
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There's I can tell you later because I don't want to say the university but there's one where you don't have to do a residency.
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So I'm I'm tinkering with it.
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I'm not sure yet.
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And I guess you can use AI.
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To someone said the other day in a webinar that I attended about AI in higher education and they said, well, you know what?
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You can use chat, gpt to actually ask you for good dissertation topics.
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And I'm like, oh, my gosh, why didn't I think of that?
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Maybe I can do that because I've been doing that to ask for, like, episode outlines for my podcast and other things.
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So I'm like, wow, okay, so you can use, use it for so many things.
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So, and of course, instructional design, you know, really helpful too.
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But yeah, that's great, I love that.
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And the nice thing about these museums now I saw one of my former students that actually uh, kind of introduced me to some of that too, because she's also interested in uh education at the museums and um and other types of places like that, and she's like here, go online because I think it's the Natural History Museum in New York where they have this whole entire online program for students for different ages and they can still go in person and learn too.
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But it was really neat.
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They had like all these different elements of history and it was all segmented for different grade levels and I was like wow, and they had immersive experiences for them.
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I'm just like Exactly, and that's so exciting to me.
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So I thought, oh, I would love to be a part of that.
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Yeah.
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Because I stumbled upon it as an educator, having my students explore different museums and the California Science Center, and we're so close to Los Angeles, so we've got the LA Natural History Museum, the La Brea Tar Pits there are just over a dozen of them in this area that we can send kids to in person and then also, before we were taking field trips there, we were exploring their online components and, similarly, it was things that were just.
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I was in awe of their outreach program and thought, oh, I think I would love to be able to do that someday, that would be neat.
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Wow, and I think that museum too.
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They had like a whole Hebrew class where you could learn different languages, and one of them was Hebrew, so you could learn how to write and even, down the road, speak in Hebrew.
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They had like a Jewish scholar that taught it Like wow, so they had classes, too that you could take online, and some of them were just in person, but some were online too.
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So I was like wow, that's, that's pretty amazing.
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And they, they were expanding their catalog and stuff.
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So yeah, I can imagine how excited people are when they stumble upon that you know and realize, oh, this is free and it's something that maybe.
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I take the class online today, but maybe I work up to being able to take a trip there in person in the future, or even just having that as a spark for their you know creative pursuits of education.
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Right, exactly, yeah, there's definitely some great museums that I want to visit, like in California, and then I want to go on the East Coast and visit the ones in DC and go to the ones in New York.
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Like there's the Museum of the Bible.
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I'm like that's like at the top of my list of places to go museums to see is Museum of the Bible.
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I'm like that's like at the top of my list of places to go museums to see is Museum of the Bible, because they've got all these different exhibits and I'm like, oh, I want to go to that one, oh, I want to go that one.
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So that's really neat.
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So, and they've had artists and other people of faith that have gone there and done recordings and stuff like that and they show different aspects of it and they've done, you know, virtual tours and I'm like they show different aspects of it and they've done, you know, virtual tours and I'm like, wow, that's amazing.
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So I can imagine how exciting that would be to work there.
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Yeah, I was going to say now imagine like being the person who's responsible for the creation of those things.
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That sounds.
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That's where I get really excited.
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Yeah, it's like it just puts a fire inside you, right.
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And you're like, ooh, this is this is amazing.
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This is amazing.
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Yeah, that's great.
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Yeah, because I've heard you know that education is just.
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You know, it doesn't matter what age you are.
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It's just started helping his son with a business.
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But he used to do instructional design and he worked for a lot of fortune 500 companies.
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He worked in higher ed and then fortune 500.
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And he's like, yeah, higher ed is good, you can, and even education in general is good.
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They don't pay as much, but if you have a passion for it, it's go for it.
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But he said, with corporate they pay more but you don't stay there as long.
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So he kept bouncing around.
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Why are you bouncing around?
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He's like because your time is up after four years design and then you move forward and you move forward.
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So I'm like, oh, I don't know if I would like doing that.
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I don't know if I'd like hopping from place to place.
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I mean, he got to work for fortune 500 companies and then when he got, his last job was at Apple and I'm like Apple wow, that's pretty big.
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But he was able to build up to that and so it was a good experience for him.
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But I'm like I don't know, just having to learn the culture over again somewhere else, oh my gosh, I didn't even consider that aspect, that sounds exhausting, yeah.
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And then having to go through new hire training, I'm like, yeah, I don't know.
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So I can understand why the longevity of something is just, it's appealing.
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So yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I feel like for me, I've already been a teacher for 22 years, so I have what some people would consider a full career behind them and yet I still see so many years ahead of myself that I feel like I can contribute positively and that I just genuinely I can contribute positively and that I just genuinely I really love being in the classroom with kids and to have I think I lucked out, because I don't know of any other districts that offer the opportunity for you to be able to stay in the classroom and be a classroom teacher working with children, which is definitely where my passion lies but then also to be able to, you know, take that and expand upon it as a program, specialist position and work with adults and teach new teachers and work with veteran educators who just want to like improve other skills or, you know, develop lessons together, that sort of thing, and I don't I don't know that I would have had that opportunity anywhere else.
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So I think, like you said, when you see something that's good, I think I'm going to stick with it for as long as I can.
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Exactly so your, it's your depth of knowledge, and what you're able to teach is just it's pretty neat because you're able to teach the little kids, but then you're also able to learn adult education principles and theories and apply those and be able to do that too.
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So it's it's a holistic type of job that you have really yeah, you know it's funny, you mentioned that too.
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Actually, um, you asked about what I've, you know, been excited about the program and that's one of the things that came up.
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Uh, I, in a class that I I think I just finished it in my last class actually, uh, we really were talking about andragogy and the like learning styles of adults, Right, and I've been working with adults now for 12 years and writing lessons and lesson designs for them and never really I guess I didn't it was able to put to words a lot of my experiences and I felt very validated by oh, that is exactly how I do it.
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I didn't realize I was doing it the right way this time, Okay.
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And then also, oh, I was getting close to that, but I just needed this bit and oh, I was nowhere near that and I've been having grownups do the wrong thing.
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So it really has been a great experience for me being able to, you know, sort of self evaluate and reflect on what I've been doing for the past 12 years and what I can do for the next 12 to make it better.
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Right, because it's not just a, because sometimes people will say, well, it's not really part of my job description, it's just an additional part of what I do, but it's like no, I kind of I, because I do the same thing.
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I help with curriculum, higher education curriculum but I also help with professional development and training for the employees in my department and then in the wider spectrum of that too.
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So even though it's not in my job description, I still look at it as part of what I do every day you know and stuff.
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So or even it's not.
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You know, it's kind of I guess it's part of my job title, but just not.
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It's not in the traditional job description, but it still has has meaning and yeah, it's, it's pretty.
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Definitely in my job, my job description, but it's a description that has evolved over time.
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So when they initially created the demonstration team, we were meant to just be teachers in the classroom demonstrating lessons that they recorded and then occasionally podcasts and that sort of thing.
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But then over time it has really become actually.
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We need you to move out into the educational community and start developing professional or start creating professional development modules and that sort of thing.
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So it's not necessarily something that I was initially hired to do, but it has evolved into that's what I'm doing.
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So I really I really appreciate that now I'm like getting my feet wet with the principles behind it, like the driving principles of Android, right.
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Yeah, exactly, and you've kind of touched on this somewhat too but are there any specific areas you wanted to point out in which you're able to expand your knowledge and your skills with this program that you feel like you're really trying to hone in and really get to the heart of with this program?
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So, absolutely, working with adult learners, it's again something that I've sort of been, I guess, like had a blindfold on and like feeling my way through the hallway of making sure that I was getting things right and getting feedback, and, you know, receiving feedback from, like, my supervisors and also from my students, my adult students and, uh, participants in my, my classes and that sort of thing.
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But this has really helped me have a clarity of mission that I didn't have before, and that's nice.
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And then I think, on top of that, um, I, as I mentioned, I'm considering doing a doctorate in instructional technology and, uh, while I've been doing this for quite some time, we've been doing it in, uh, I guess, a more hands-on, in-person way.
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So my district has a very well-established structure and routine of what presentations look like, of what professional development looks like, and, while there's absolutely a lot of wiggle room and they do encourage us to incorporate new technology, in fact, I'm very lucky we also have an opportunity to put forth our own suggestions of what we would like our professional development to be.
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And a lot of us ask for, oh, we're trying to stay on the cutting edge of technology, but, honestly, there's no, it's, it just moves so quickly?
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How do you?
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You know, by the time you learn something and master something, there's already a new program or a device to replace that.
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And you're like, oh okay, let me catch up on that one.
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So I'm really excited to just see what other people are doing with technology, cause, you know, I was in a DQ conversation with another scholar in our class earlier today, as a matter of fact, who was asking me about oh, you mentioned this, what is that platform?
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And I was able to explain it.
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And then I'm the person going wait, what are you talking about?
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I've never heard of that before.
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Tell me all about it and being-way street.
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I I give so much as far as what I've learned over the years, but then I I learned things too, um.
00:19:12.512 --> 00:19:13.516
So it's pretty amazing.
00:19:13.516 --> 00:19:16.565
Like a couple years ago one of my students introduced me to genially.
00:19:16.565 --> 00:19:17.736
I was like what's genially?
00:19:17.736 --> 00:19:20.904
And she showed me one of her genially's and I'm like what is this?
00:19:20.904 --> 00:19:21.894
I've got to check this out.
00:19:21.894 --> 00:19:27.626
So then I did their intro course and then then within an hour, I created my first Genie, which was an interactive image.
00:19:27.686 --> 00:19:31.522
And since then I was like this is cool, I can use this for these things.
00:19:31.522 --> 00:19:36.499
And so I try to find ways to use those types of tools that are interactive and engaging.
00:19:36.499 --> 00:19:41.486
And then with Canva yeah, canva's gone, just the AI now.
00:19:41.486 --> 00:19:42.386
It's just amazing.
00:19:42.386 --> 00:19:44.829
And Canva code and all that stuff.
00:19:44.829 --> 00:19:50.247
You know that I've been playing around with a little bit more and I I've got a vocab game I can share that.
00:19:50.247 --> 00:19:51.298
I'll share it in the class.
00:19:51.298 --> 00:19:52.140
It turned out really good.
00:19:52.140 --> 00:20:02.647
It took three attempts to get it the way I wanted it to, because each time you go into Canva code and you, even if you give it the same prompt, it will, it will give you something different every time.
00:20:02.647 --> 00:20:03.729
It's never the same.
00:20:04.130 --> 00:20:07.411
That's what I've noticed about AI it's, it's, it's different each time.
00:20:07.411 --> 00:20:09.960
You're never going to get the same result, no matter what you do.
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:16.624
But it was pretty cool to kind of try it again and say, oh no, you know this is not working, can you correct the counter?
00:20:16.624 --> 00:20:19.327
And it and it and I was like correct these things and it did.
00:20:19.327 --> 00:20:22.648
But it was funny because it took two hours for it to correct it.
00:20:22.648 --> 00:20:26.990
But I thought if I tried to do that on my own and code, oh, that would take me weeks to do that.
00:20:26.990 --> 00:20:34.674
So I'm okay with waiting a couple hours if, uh, if, you can do it for me, rather than taking weeks to do something on my own.
00:20:34.895 --> 00:20:40.083
So I haven't used the Canva AI uh features.
00:20:40.083 --> 00:20:41.685
But I have been.
00:20:41.685 --> 00:20:43.567
My district did provide us.
00:20:43.567 --> 00:20:46.192
You know like, hey, here's Canva, go jump in both feet.
00:20:46.192 --> 00:20:46.553
So I have been.
00:20:46.553 --> 00:20:47.354
My district did provide us.
00:20:47.354 --> 00:20:51.776
You know like, hey, here's Canva, go jump in both feet.
00:20:51.776 --> 00:20:55.124
So I've been kind of an early adopter and I have found just amazing luck getting fifth and sixth graders to buy into a topic.
00:20:55.124 --> 00:20:57.759
If you say, yeah, you can absolutely do your report in Canva.
00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:03.020
And then all of a sudden you get this creative infographic that shows everything they learned and you know.
00:21:03.020 --> 00:21:06.680
So I really love the creativity that is possible with Canva.
00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:08.624
Yes, it's amazing.
00:21:08.624 --> 00:21:10.268
There's so many great tools out there.
00:21:10.268 --> 00:21:13.462
You know that are that can be used for K through 12 education.
00:21:13.462 --> 00:21:15.934
So Adobe Spark is another one that's.
00:21:15.934 --> 00:21:17.278
A lot of students love that too.
00:21:17.278 --> 00:21:31.622
So, yeah, if we can introduce them to that early on and get their interest in it and know that you don't have to be intimidated by the technology and really get creative with it, I think it really gets them, you know, fueled with that and then they really want to do the assignment.
00:21:31.622 --> 00:21:34.036
They're like, oh, I'll do it, It'll be great.
00:21:34.237 --> 00:21:35.760
Yeah, and that you can't break it.
00:21:35.760 --> 00:21:39.316
That's something that I have to keep reminding my fifth and sixth graders.
00:21:39.316 --> 00:21:40.577
You know, you just try it.
00:21:40.577 --> 00:21:46.387
The worst that can happen is it just doesn't work and then we'll start fresh, like go back to the homepage and start all over.
00:21:46.387 --> 00:21:47.529
You really can't break it.
00:21:48.055 --> 00:21:49.236
Exactly, that's so true.
00:21:49.236 --> 00:21:50.217
Great.
00:21:50.217 --> 00:21:51.218
I love that.
00:21:51.218 --> 00:22:06.881
Those are great things that you can continue to build upon because, like you said, technology just keeps evolving, keeps changing, and we know AI is not going anywhere, so it's just going to keep changing and evolving in so many ways, and education is one of those places where it's going to get better and better.
00:22:06.881 --> 00:22:07.643
So it's great.
00:22:07.643 --> 00:22:14.126
So what are some tips and advice you can share with those that are considering enrolling in the master's program?
00:22:14.126 --> 00:22:19.626
An instructional designer maybe have just started, because my audience is expanded quite a bit.
00:22:19.626 --> 00:22:25.256
It used to just be the niche of the GCU students, but I now have listeners all over the world.
00:22:25.256 --> 00:22:33.480
I my my highest listener demographic is the United States, of course, but then second highest which I'm very surprised is Germany.
00:22:34.825 --> 00:22:35.386
I don't.
00:22:35.386 --> 00:22:37.473
I know I've never had students in.
00:22:37.493 --> 00:22:38.875
Germany before in my classes.
00:22:38.875 --> 00:22:44.944
So I'm like okay, they're finding it somehow, like uh, so it's really neat, oh, there goes my camera, but anyway so.
00:22:44.944 --> 00:22:48.288
Um, so what are some tips and advice that you can share?
00:22:48.670 --> 00:23:03.828
um, for those that are considering enrolling in the program, you know, um, first and foremost, uh, I have had such a positive experience with my GCU counselor, so shout out to Samita, uh, she's pretty fantastic.
00:23:03.828 --> 00:23:09.319
Vcu counselor so shout out to Samita, she's pretty fantastic.
00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:15.798
When I was even wondering whether or not I could fit the program into my schedule and I have a full-time job with another job on top of that.
00:23:15.798 --> 00:23:22.320
So I thought for a while I don't know if this is going to be the right time or the right fit, and then I thought, well, wait, when is the right time?
00:23:22.320 --> 00:23:27.269
Because I'm not going to be less busy as I go, I'm just going to continue, if not get busier.
00:23:27.269 --> 00:23:42.368
So, being able to sit down with my counselor and have her, sort of like, give me a rundown of exactly which courses were needed for the degree, what it would look like to be in those courses, and she was very clear.
00:23:42.368 --> 00:23:48.982
And she also offered me multiple opportunities of oh, if you're interested in this program, you can make it look like this.
00:23:48.982 --> 00:23:51.298
If you're interested in that program, you can make it look like that.
00:23:51.298 --> 00:24:01.826
And I don't know if I would have necessarily realized that this was for me if she hadn't made that such a transparent and seamless process.
00:24:01.826 --> 00:24:03.820
So definitely work with your counselor.
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