July 27, 2025
Beyond the LMS: Why Instructional Design Keeps Growing with Shane Strand
Welcome to episode 38 of the Designing with Love podcast! In this episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing Shane Strand, an instructional designer who works in the higher education sector.
Ever wondered how educators transform into instructional designers? Shane takes us through his fascinating journey from high school teacher to curriculum coordinator to instructional designer in higher education. What begins as a story of career transition unfolds into a masterclass on navigating the evolving landscape of instructional design.
For those entering the field or looking to advance, Shane offers practical advice: "There's always new tools popping up. Almost all of them have free trials, so be brave and test them out." This spirit of continuous experimentation and learning emerges as the key to success in this dynamic profession where technology and educational theory intersect in increasingly innovative ways.
Ready to expand your instructional design toolkit and connect with a community of like-minded professionals? Subscribe now and join the conversation about the future of learning design.
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00:00 - Introducing Shane Strand
04:00 - Journey from Teaching to Instructional Design
09:30 - Technology's Draw in Instructional Design
15:44 - Expanding Knowledge in the Field
20:04 - Tips for Aspiring Instructional Designers
26:29 - The Evolution of ID Models
29:44 - Final Thoughts and New Tools
WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to the Designing with Love podcast.
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I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you information, tips and tricks as an instructional designer.
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Hello, GCU students, alumni and fellow educators, welcome to episode 38 of the Designing with Love podcast.
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Today, I have the pleasure of interviewing Shane Strand, an instructional designer who works in the higher education sector.
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Welcome, Shane.
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Jackie, thanks for having me.
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You're welcome.
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Thank you for taking the time today to come on my podcast and talk to some of my students today and also others around the world.
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This has become a worldwide podcast.
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It's great.
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Wonderful.
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So can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
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I began before even finding out what instructional design was.
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I was a high school teacher for six years and then I later transitioned into an assistant principal role.
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I did that for three years and then I eventually merged into a curriculum coordinator role.
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After that third position in secondary education, I was ready to find something else.
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That third position in secondary education, I was ready to find something else, and I'd just been learning about what instructional design is and what a career in that could be.
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So I would say I found out more about it as I was taking some graduate coursework at Northern Arizona University.
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I was majoring in educational leadership.
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I'd taken a couple courses in educational technology and then that's where I was really open to that whole other field called instructional design.
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Yeah, like I think a lot of people just still don't know what instructional design is unless they're in it.
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It's one of those things where if someone asks you, oh, what do you do?
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And you say you're a structural designer, they are a little bit perplexed by it and they don't know what that is.
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So you have to explain it a little bit.
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But it took a while to find it.
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And well, now I'm here.
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That's great, yes.
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I noticed great.
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Yes, I noticed that too.
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When people ask me what kind of work do you do?
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And I say instructional design.
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If you're in person with them or over the phone or something on video, and you say that, and they have this perplexed look and they're like what does that mean?
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Yeah, I even had someone that I interviewed a couple weeks ago and he is a math educator, he's taught K through 12 in higher education, and he asked me what I do and I said instructional design and he said, oh, what is that?
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And when I explained it to him and they tend to pick up on it and they're like that's what that is.
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So, yeah, that's kind of interesting how you you are.
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You were already doing it, you just didn't know it.
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And that's pretty amazing when you kind of stumbled upon it, right, and didn't expect it.
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Exactly, yeah, yeah.
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And, like you said, you're doing it already as a teacher, as an educator.
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You don't even realize it, and then it's also really exciting when you realize, oh my gosh, like I have a lot of skills already that are transferable.
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This is great.
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It's like you're already have a foot in the field, without even knowing it.
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Right, that's amazing, yeah, and a lot of the students that we teach in this program I don't know if your students mentioned it, but a lot of my students do too in K through 12 or higher education, if they're already in the fields that, they became kind of an accidental instructional designer and didn't know it.
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So it's pretty, pretty cool.
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Yeah, that's neat, great.
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So you kind of mentioned this a little bit, but what kind of made you become interested in the position that you're in now in higher education and even just the industry as a whole?
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Was there something in particular that really sparked your, your interest in it?
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I mean, yeah.
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So I would say, while I was in secondary education, I'd say my, like my second year of teaching, I I started to realize this was not entirely what I wanted to do.
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You know, long-term same with that educational leadership, I just always thought there's just something more interesting out there.
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Like that fit me better.
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And as I started discovering, like, what instructional design was, I mean like I had I started doing my own research, you know, reading articles about it, taking those ed tech classes that I mentioned.
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But what really drew me was just the technology aspect, like all this e-learning technology, seeing these online courses that are out there.
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When I was in secondary education, half the years I spent as a teacher was in an alternative school setting where we actually it was a hybrid setting where students came in person but they worked on computers.
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We had a learning management system.
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They worked online on their courses, and I've just always been intrigued by just online learning.
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And then it's booming so fast the different, the LMSs, learning management systems, what they can do nowadays, how sophisticated they become, and then all these different technologies like course authoring tools, multimedia that you can use to enhance them even further.
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So that just really piqued my interest and it's just like a whole new frontier that's being explored and it's rapidly expanding too.
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So that's what really drew me Exciting things you can do with these new tech tools coming out.
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And then, of course, there's AI.
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And then that's revolutionary itself, right.
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Yeah, that's what really drew me to it, and it's just there's different industries.
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There's the corporate world, where it's more focused on training and skill development, and then there's higher ed, where we're building degree programs.
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It's just a very exciting industry and that's what really drew me to it.
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Right.
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Yeah, it's amazing because it's a field that doesn't seem to grow old, right, it's evergreen because as you mentioned.
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There's corporate, there's higher education, military, nonprofit.
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There's so many industries that we can go into and sectors that we can branch out into.
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So it's amazing because I started in higher education and then I went to corporate for a while and then I came back to higher education so I bounced back.
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So I think education is where I like to be, but I also like corporate too, because it gives you those opportunities sometimes to learn some different skills that you may not get in the higher education sector.
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So it's kind of interesting because when I worked at PetSmart and I did my contractor position there, they had me learning InDesign and all the Adobe tools that I didn't learn at my other position, my first position as instructional designer.
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I was like, oh, we didn't have InDesign because the Adobe package we had didn't include InDesign, but it included Captivate.
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And then it was, yeah, so it's very interesting, and they were moving away from Captivate to Storyline.
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So I was like, oh, that's interesting, so it's kind of neat.
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And then you get to learn different facets of corporate and how the inner workings are of it and how it differs from education, but there's also similar things too.
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So it's very interesting that we can branch into different areas and learn the different elements of it, and I think it makes us more well-rounded as instructional designers because, even like where you and I work at GCE, we can get involved in professional development and training and be able to help adult learners still right and help with that aspect of it.
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So it's really neat to be able to still branch out because I feel like we have to keep ourselves abreast of all the different skills, especially the technology right.
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It's always changing yeah.
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And that's a great point.
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Just, it is a lot there's.
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It's growing and changing so quickly.
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At the same time, the technology AI just popping up has changed everything and then, yeah, it's hard to keep up with all the new technologies coming into play and then choosing which one might be better for different things.
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Like I can start some of those things that are prototyping coming into play and then choosing which one might be better for different things, like um right instructional designers are prototyping.
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It's like there's so many different tech tools for prototyping and it's like, well, which one do you go with?
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And so, yeah, it's it's very interesting and a little overwhelming at the same time yeah, that's true.
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It's yeah, knowing which ones are good and kind of, in a way, limiting yourself.
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That's in some ways because you don't want to go into learn everything.
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And then you're like, oh well, I don't think I'm going to be able to use all that.
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So yeah, right.
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Yeah, choosing that, yeah.
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So you mentioned a little bit about AI Are there and we can expand upon that too.
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Are there any other specific areas in which you're expanding your knowledge and skills in the field right now?
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Besides, you know and we can include ai as well if you want yeah, um, well, I mean, like what we're doing here with um using ai when developing our courses or in and even at the program level.
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I saw what you were doing with competencies, with um coming up descriptions, flushing out assignments in course development.
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It's amazing what it can do and just you know, just expanding on those possibilities.
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But in addition to AI I'm looking at, I'm also looking at other skill sets out there.
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What's interesting is looking at different instructional design opportunities that pop up and then what other instructional designers are talking about instructional design opportunities that pop up, and then what other instructional designers are talking about, like I know, um getting to know a bit of uh code, how to code html css I know some instructional designers do that that's awesome
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yeah, and not something, um, I do in my current position, but I know that a lot of instructional designers that work with those truly sophisticated course authoring tools like Articulate Storyline, I know there's a way to use coding to enhance that further, to just go the extra mile with those course creations.
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So there are so many little niches out there to explore and I think it's more like, based on everything I've read and seen, more corporate that kind of has those tools and wants those skills.
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But also LMS is that coding and programming skill set would factor into there as well.
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So I have no skill in that area whatsoever.
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So that's why it's interesting to me.
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There's other parts like visual design, how to really make courses look visually appealing and then also follow those principles of multimedia to really just make the experience the best it could possibly be.
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There's just so many different things to look into.
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But I would say, yeah, in terms of what, how I'm looking to expand my own skill set would be just kind of looking to see what all is out there, what everybody's talking about, and just kind of like narrowing down different things to explore more.
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That's great, yeah, because, as they say, even when you land your dream job and you become an instructional designer, it doesn't stop there, right?
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You have to continue to evolve and learn those things, and so it's a constant thing, and I even read last year and I watched a video too from Delvin Peck's website, because he has, if you're probably familiar with Delvin Peck, I share a lot of his videos in my classes and he has that boot camp for the instructional designers that are up and coming instructional designers that are up and coming.
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And he had a gentleman that went through that and he talked about his portfolio and how it's important to keep that going.
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That was one thing I didn't do in my master's degree.
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Once I was done with the program, I didn't touch my portfolio and so I was.
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I thought to myself, oh my gosh, that's he's right, because it does become a marketing tool and we can't just abandon it.
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We have to continually work on it, because you just never know what could happen and where you're where you're at, because when I was at PetSmart and I was doing the contracting, I had tried twice to get hired at PetSmart and I got turned down.
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And so then I found an agency that does creative hiring.
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It's through Robert Half, it's called the Creative Group.
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I'm pretty sure they're still around and they said, oh, we work with PetSmart and we can help you.
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And I thought, oh great, you guys can get.
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At least that way I can get myself in the door.
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And they said, exactly, if you can do it for six months and show that you can do the work and you can have that expertise, then, yeah, you increase your chances of getting hired.
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So I was like, oh well, this is great, I'll get my foot in the door.
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But then, at that six month mark, the owners had decided to sell PetSmart and they got rid of all the contractors.
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And then in the learning and development department, where I worked as a contractor, they got rid of 95% of the individuals in that department.
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There was a lady that was there 17 years as an instructional designer and they they fired her, let her go, and I thought, oh my goodness, all they kept was one instructional designer, one learning developer and the and a manager, and that was it.
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They had like 20 people in department and they got rid of everybody but three people and they just reorganized the whole entire, not just that department but a lot of other areas too at the corporate.
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And I was like wow.
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So it was disappointing Because I thought that's what I wanted to do.
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I wanted to work for PetSmart.
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That was something I just craved to do, that because I love the pet industry and it was combining both loves.
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That I really had a passion for.
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Yeah, and so when that happened, I felt like it was just a just like a stab in the back for me, in a sense, and it just just almost like tearing out a piece of my heart and I'm like, no, but then I found that.
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But then that recruiter said to me well, go go over to GCU.
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I used to work at GCU.
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So I was like, okay, I'll give it a try.
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But she's like curriculum development is different from employee training development, so just be aware of that.
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And so, yeah, it's interesting how your career can shift and change, and so it's always good to be ready for that.
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You just never know.
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Yeah, yeah, that's great.
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So what are some tips and advice you can share with those who are currently in the master's program in instructional design at Grand Canyon University?
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design and really I really knew for sure that was gonna be my my calling by just what I learned in online communities and networking.
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Um, devlin peck I have watched so many of his videos.
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He's got a lot of that free youtube content and, like you said, he's got that right now.
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Um, I I think I highly recommend anybody who's interested in becoming an instructional designer or who currently is, who wants to upscale, watch Devin Beck videos.
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I mean, he's very thorough on how he covers different pieces of it.
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He's got all kinds of content free and then content you can pay for, and I have purchased some of his courses as well.
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He's got courses on how to use Articulate Storyline, how to build an e-learning portfolio, as you mentioned and just how to make yourself more marketable All kinds of different things and, as I was talking about, even coding HTML and CSS.
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He's even got content on that as well.
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But I found just what you can find out there in the World Wide Web with these online communities.
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Those are huge.
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And then there's also communities.
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Well, there's LinkedIn groups.
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Devlin's got his own community.
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There's tons of others out there too, and you see what other instructional designers are doing in different industries, and that just really expands your knowledge, and then you can even network with these people and then you can even share some stuff and content.
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You're working on ideas you have and get their feedback, and that's huge.
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I think you can never go wrong with that.
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And then the other thing I would add would be there's a lot of great books out there.
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One of the first books I read for to become an instructional designer was called the e-learning designers handbook by Tim Slade.
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Yes, I have that book.
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You do yeah.
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Yeah, that was one of the first books I read too.
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Yeah, I love that.
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That was just an easy read it's completely.
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It's like the perfect intro book.
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And then another one I'd started and hadn't have not gone around to finishing would be Map it by Kathy Moore.
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Oh, I've heard of that book.
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Yeah, I'd like to read that one too tailored towards the corporate world and just but just how to map and identify.
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You know what the problem is and what the training need is.
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There's just so many interesting resources out there, so my recommendation is to be look at all the literature out there, see, find online communities with other designers, see what they're doing and they're all sharing something.
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Right, yeah, that all sharing something, right?
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Yeah, that's so true.
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Yeah, and it's interesting too.
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When you mentioned Tim Slade, I thought of I share some of his videos to my classes because he has the eLearner Designers Academy and all these different videos.
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So whenever I'm looking for something for my, I have the classroom assessment technique.
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Of course we're we have to do those every week.
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I have the classroom assessment technique.
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Of course, we have to do those every week, but I also have a Media Monday post that I do and it's based upon media, whether it's a video or an infographic or something like that, and it really gets my students interested in all of that and they get to learn a little bit more than maybe they would have with the content that's already in the course, already built.
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So it's really fun.
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And so most of the time, that's what I'm sharing is Dalvin's videos and Tim's videos for the most part, because they, like you said, they have such a rich library of things on their YouTube channel and different elements that you can grab from that just make it such a easy go-to.
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And why have us reinvent the information, right, if it's already out there?
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Just be able to utilize what's already there, exactly.
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And I think that's great that you share those videos with your class.
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I should do that more with mine as well, because then that gets our students more, makes them more aware that's YouTube.
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Oh wow, who's this person?
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And all they got to do is start looking more into it and they'll find a vast amount of resources for further exploration.
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It's amazing.
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I'm sure at this point, devlin must have like 100 different videos by now.
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Probably.
00:18:52.366 --> 00:19:08.250
Yeah, it's amazing, yeah, and I've also noticed there's a few other different podcasts like this that are instructional design type of podcasts where it's a mixture of topical based, like what I do, and then interviews like this, and it's very interesting to see what else is out there.
00:19:08.250 --> 00:19:23.801
And the main reason I started this podcast not a lot of people know is because with online learning you don't get that opportunity to have experts come into the classroom like you do on a ground campus, right in a physical classroom.
00:19:23.801 --> 00:19:46.279
And so when I I actually when I went to Walden university that's a hundred percent online and I wrote on a note in a notebook I actually in a one note notebook I wrote down some of the things that I wanted to see as a student in that program and I said to myself and I wrote this down, I still have it If I ever become a teacher, if I ever teach higher education at any point in time.
00:19:46.299 --> 00:20:02.876
I never thought I would, but if I ever do, these are the things that I would want to do as an instructor, and that was one of the things was to have a online community or something where I could mimic in some way that opportunity of having guests come in, and so that's, and so I thought, why don't I do a podcast?
00:20:02.876 --> 00:20:05.278
Ooh, that would be great, and yeah.
00:20:05.278 --> 00:20:09.221
So lo and behold, I didn't expect two years later to still be going.
00:20:09.221 --> 00:20:27.980
But it's amazing because the owner of Podmatch which I will tag Podmatch on he said that 95% of podcasts fail within the first year because it's hard to maintain, it's hard to get the guests, and so.
00:20:27.980 --> 00:20:37.038
But with Podmatch I've been able to, you know, get more of those interviews and it's been amazing, and then experts like yourself that I work with to be able to do that.
00:20:37.038 --> 00:20:41.607
So I think that's been able to just be a game changer all around.
00:20:42.714 --> 00:20:45.484
So I didn't even realize that 95% mile.
00:20:47.117 --> 00:20:50.266
That's, yeah, it's crazy, isn't it, that many fail.
00:20:50.266 --> 00:21:01.742
You know, they start and then they just can't maintain it or they just don't get enough audience and they say even it's not just about the download, that's about who you're, who you're connecting with and who your listeners are.
00:21:01.742 --> 00:21:06.097
So building that community it's another way to build a community too.
00:21:06.097 --> 00:21:09.826
So it's it's pretty neat to have those different ways right that we can.
00:21:09.826 --> 00:21:12.401
We can build that community of individuals.
00:21:12.441 --> 00:21:27.596
so you never know, maybe someday I'll be able to interview devlin pack or template maybe yeah and you know that when you, when you do look at how many big, influential instructional designers can you count on one hand?
00:21:27.596 --> 00:21:35.122
I know devlin, tim slade, kathy moore is another one, connie malamed would be one yes, oh my goodness.
00:21:35.463 --> 00:21:40.538
Yeah, like we were talking about earlier, it's just it still almost feels like it's still like a new field.
00:21:40.538 --> 00:21:54.763
So I think, when you like, I have tried looking for podcasts to listen to just to you know, when I got to have to go do a long drive, I want to have a podcast playing so I can like at least just continue enriching myself with knowledge.
00:21:54.763 --> 00:22:03.523
And there there isn't, there aren't that many options out there for instructional designers, and I mean it's still like it's almost like that kind of like a hidden field still.
00:22:03.564 --> 00:22:09.131
So yeah, it's very interesting because it started off in the middle, with the military right During World War II.
00:22:09.131 --> 00:22:15.944
That's where the history started, with the army, and it's hard to believe that it started that long ago.
00:22:15.944 --> 00:22:31.039
And there's so many prominent people that develop these models and theories and when you look back on that you're like, oh, my goodness, yes, like Bloom's taxonomy started in the 1960s by Benjamin Bloom.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:34.996
And when some of my students learn that, they're like, really it's been around that long, and I'm like, yes, it has.
00:22:36.298 --> 00:22:40.428
It's amazing and Addy's been around since the 60s.
00:22:42.121 --> 00:22:50.654
And we're still using it today yeah, it's a tried and true method, although some people you know attribute it to taking too long when you have rapid development.
00:22:50.654 --> 00:22:55.747
So of course, sam came along to help with more of that collaboration and things like that.
00:22:55.747 --> 00:23:02.096
I it's interesting because I think you and I um in our position and with the other instructional designers that we work.
00:23:02.096 --> 00:23:07.951
I think we do like a hybrid of Addy and Sam, because we're doing constant iteration.
00:23:07.951 --> 00:23:11.839
Right, we're working with subject matter experts, we're collaborating with them.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.096
So I don't feel like we're doing a full Addy or a full Sam.
00:23:15.096 --> 00:23:17.323
I feel like we're doing a little bit of both.
00:23:17.323 --> 00:23:17.884
What do you think?
00:23:17.884 --> 00:23:18.567
Kind of a hybrid?
00:23:18.914 --> 00:23:21.019
Yeah, I'd say so, yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:23:21.019 --> 00:23:25.356
And I mean there's, and there's some, there's others out there too, there's Agile.
00:23:26.199 --> 00:23:30.587
Oh yeah, exactly 4CID is out there, which is good for higher ed.
00:23:30.587 --> 00:23:33.339
So, yeah, cause it's, it's interesting.
00:23:33.339 --> 00:23:42.601
And what's cool is episode 26 is where I talk about the top 10 instructional design models and theories and that's actually bumped up to the most popular one right now.
00:23:42.601 --> 00:23:57.119
It's in like the 60s or something like that, and I released that about a month ago and it's and what I did was I actually went to chat GPT and I asked chat GPT, what are the top 10 instructional design models and tools right now?
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.583
And that's when it gave me the list.
00:23:58.644 --> 00:24:03.525
And then I asked chat GPT I was like, okay, great, can you give me like a little outline to help get me started?
00:24:03.525 --> 00:24:07.035
Chat GPT I was like, okay, great, can you give me like a little outline to help get me started?
00:24:07.035 --> 00:24:24.884
So it's funny because I use AI now for the podcast, so I use it to generate topic ideas, I use it to help me with my outline and things like that, and then, of course, as we mentioned before we started this, I utilize it for being able to edit these episodes and then also with the creation of it with my hosting platform.
00:24:24.884 --> 00:24:29.784
So it's amazing how AI just touches everything and it helps make our work easier.
00:24:29.784 --> 00:24:42.503
But I love how we can still go to those tried and true methods right and those models and tools that we know work are evidence based, and be able to infuse that technology in it in the same light.
00:24:43.144 --> 00:24:52.022
Yeah, and AI, I mean it helps us in our current roles as instructional designers and then with our courses and then with your podcast.
00:24:52.022 --> 00:24:53.807
It just helps speed things up.
00:24:53.807 --> 00:24:56.002
So I mean that probably helps.
00:24:56.002 --> 00:25:09.160
I know you do teach a lot of courses in addition to doing instructional design, so having the AI is just such a powerful tool that just helps you speed up everything and be able to do more with your time.
00:25:10.961 --> 00:25:23.609
Right, oh, so true, and I just started a blog site not too long ago, so I take that, as I mentioned, the co-host AI technology and Buzzsprout gives me that blog post, so I take that as my inspiration.
00:25:23.609 --> 00:25:51.391
I thought things like that, so it's really neat how we can take that and really utilize it as passive income and still love it as a passion, because at the end of the day, it's something that's a passion of mine, and what I thought was going to be a small segment of students ended up growing into more than that.
00:25:51.391 --> 00:25:58.469
I have educators, I have people I don't even know all around the world that are listening to this, and I never would have imagined that.
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