Sept. 28, 2025
Educational Trenches: Surviving and Thriving with Dr. Dana Goodier
Welcome to episode 50 of the Designing with Love podcast! In this episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Dana Goodier, an educational consultant, author, and podcast host.
When the classroom feels like a battlefield, who's there to pull you through? In this illuminating conversation with Dr. Goodier, we dive deep into the concept of "educational trenches" – those challenging periods when educators question their professional path.
For instructional designers and those developing professional development, she provides actionable advice: know your audience, focus on outcomes, scaffold appropriately, and respect educators' time with blended learning approaches that include meaningful follow-up. Perhaps most importantly, she encourages all educators to periodically reassess their core motivation and be willing to explore new educational contexts when needed.
Whether you're currently in the trenches or supporting colleagues who are struggling, this episode offers both practical strategies and heartfelt encouragement. Subscribe now and join our community of education professionals committed to designing learning experiences with intention and care.
🔗Website and Social Links
Please visit Dr. Dana Goodier’s website and social media links below.
Join PodMatch!Use the link to join PodMatch, a place for hosts and guests to connect.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
💟Designing with Love + allows you to support the show by keeping the mic on and the ideas flowing. Click on the link above to provide your support.
☕Buy Me a Coffee is another way you can support the show, either as a one-time gift or through a monthly subscription.
🗣️Want to be a guest on Designing with Love? Send Jackie Pelegrin a message on PodMatch, here: Be a guest on the show
📝Check out the companion blog site here: Designing with Love Blog
📱Send a text to the show by clicking the Send Jackie a Text link above.
👍🏼Please make sure to like and share this episode with others. Here's to great learning!
00:00 - Introduction to Dr. Dana Goodyear
02:33 - Defining Educational Trenches
06:14 - Networking in Education
09:47 - Women's Leadership Challenges
15:07 - Technology and Cell Phone Policies
22:00 - Instructional Design Tips
28:58 - Final Thoughts and Resources
WEBVTT
00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:04.107
Hello and welcome to the Designing with Love podcast.
00:00:04.107 --> 00:00:11.753
I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you information, tips, and tricks as an instructional designer.
00:00:11.753 --> 00:00:21.722
Hello, GCU students, alumni, and fellow educators, welcome to episode 50 of the Designing with Love podcast.
00:00:21.722 --> 00:00:24.248
Today, I have the pleasure of interviewing Dr.
00:00:24.248 --> 00:00:28.929
Dana Goodier, an educational consultant, author, and podcast host.
00:00:28.929 --> 00:00:30.844
Welcome, Dana, thank you for having me.
00:00:30.844 --> 00:00:33.465
Thank you so much for coming, Dana.
00:00:33.465 --> 00:00:36.704
I appreciate you taking your time to come onto my show today.
00:00:36.704 --> 00:00:39.051
So, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
00:00:40.261 --> 00:00:43.185
So I've been in education for 25 years.
00:00:43.185 --> 00:00:48.875
I started out teaching French for about 13 years and then I taught a bit of English.
00:00:48.875 --> 00:00:57.770
French was mostly at the high school, english was at the middle and high school and I've also taught some English as a second language.
00:00:57.770 --> 00:01:12.572
I've done a variety of admin roles like dean of students and also multi-tiered systems of support, coordinator, behavior, interventionist, and so that's like my day job.
00:01:12.572 --> 00:01:17.947
And then the podcasting is something I've been doing since 2020.
00:01:17.947 --> 00:01:23.500
You know it's a windy road in education for a lot of educators.
00:01:23.500 --> 00:01:41.903
So I went with the theme out of the trenches, because a lot of educators find themselves in several trenches throughout their careers, so I wanted to give them a space to tell their stories, and I also wrote a book, the Trenches Stories of Resilient Educators.
00:01:41.903 --> 00:01:47.855
So I know I'm going to be talking a little bit about trench stories and educational trenches.
00:01:47.855 --> 00:02:01.454
Another thing about me is I've spoken professionally for about eight years now and I speak often at conferences, but I'm available for different consulting opportunities as well.
00:02:02.756 --> 00:02:03.257
That's great.
00:02:03.257 --> 00:02:10.028
So you keep yourself busy in the field of education and then consulting, and then with your podcast too.
00:02:10.028 --> 00:02:15.906
So it sounds like you're able to give so much insight and learn what's going on out in the field.
00:02:15.906 --> 00:02:17.409
So that's great, I love that.
00:02:17.409 --> 00:02:24.670
It's always good to keep an eye on what's going on and see how you can help fellow educators in that.
00:02:24.670 --> 00:02:26.454
So that's great, I love it.
00:02:26.454 --> 00:02:31.741
So what's your definition of being in the educational trenches, as you mentioned with your book?
00:02:33.223 --> 00:02:47.061
So it's really that tough period of time where somebody is questioning whether they should stay in education, and I know that there have been a lot more educators who've left education since the pandemic.
00:02:47.140 --> 00:03:04.870
But I think even as long as I've been in education, there are things that are tough for educators and you know, there's often the fact that educators leave within the first three to five years of teaching if they don't get that.
00:03:04.870 --> 00:03:08.241
Um, the trenches I've been in, you know they.
00:03:08.241 --> 00:03:10.969
They haven't been easy at the time, but it's.
00:03:10.969 --> 00:03:15.866
It's that philosophy of whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right.
00:03:15.866 --> 00:03:19.634
It's, it's a learning experience, right.
00:03:19.634 --> 00:03:24.888
And um, it's really important during those trenches to have a support system.
00:03:24.888 --> 00:03:43.432
And that support system might not be at your school, it might be through virtual meetups with other educators, it might be through some type of a network or professional organization, it might be just doing the hobbies or workout activities somebody likes to do.
00:03:43.432 --> 00:03:54.251
But if somebody is in a trench, it's making sure they're not living and breathing their job, because that trench could be caused by being overworked as well.
00:03:54.931 --> 00:03:55.612
That's so true.
00:03:55.612 --> 00:03:59.931
Yeah, and it can lead to burnout and everything else.
00:03:59.931 --> 00:04:14.673
And so in the helping professions, as they call it, and I believe that teaching is in that area I often work on curriculum for counseling and social work and they talk about compassion, fatigue and burnout and how it's important to have that self-care.
00:04:14.673 --> 00:04:31.384
So even for teachers and educators, that's just as important right to have that self-care and so that they don't face that burnout and everything you know, because what you're doing is a service and that's something that even students in my class we talked about this.
00:04:31.425 --> 00:04:44.689
There's a discussion question that talks about servant leadership and, with GCU being a Christian university, it comes into like the human flourishing aspect and that servant leadership and all of that.
00:04:44.749 --> 00:04:50.048
And so it's amazing because a lot of my students are currently educators in K-12 education.
00:04:50.048 --> 00:04:57.733
So they talk about how it's a calling for them and they're honored to do it, but it does weigh on you after a while.
00:04:57.733 --> 00:05:09.459
So being able to reach out, ask for help, know that there's a network out there that can help you, like you said, even if it's not in the school itself, but knowing that there's a network out there that can help you, like you said, even if it's not in the school itself, but knowing that there's a network out there that can be there to support them.
00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:13.028
They may not know it's out there, so it's that's important to have that.
00:05:13.028 --> 00:05:14.372
Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:14.372 --> 00:05:26.891
So it's great that you're you're out, you're there providing that support, doing conferences to speak about it and and get that awareness out there and know that there's, even though there may be a stigma, that it's okay to ask for help, right?
00:05:28.254 --> 00:05:45.567
Yeah, that's great and I think leaders and others you know veteran educators who might be a teacher support person those people are much more aware that there are educators who get burnt out and that need to take some time for themselves.
00:05:45.567 --> 00:05:49.608
You know, I think that's really evolved in the last five to 10 years.
00:05:49.608 --> 00:06:10.870
I don't think that was so much the case when I started in education Because I mean, yeah, there were people who left, but it was more just, you know, you do your job and whatever it takes, kind of attitude, I think Right, but I'm glad that it's being more recognized now.
00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:14.848
Yes, that's important and we talked a little bit about networking.
00:06:14.848 --> 00:06:20.060
So, in your experience, what's the value of networking with other educators on social media?
00:06:20.341 --> 00:06:25.072
So you know there's a variety of places people can network.
00:06:25.072 --> 00:06:28.427
Twitter now used to be that place.
00:06:28.427 --> 00:06:33.430
Through Twitter chats, people moved over to Blue Sky and there's some of that going on there.
00:06:33.430 --> 00:06:46.755
A lot of networking I've had is through just being part of like a podcast network and a place where people can access professional development.
00:06:46.755 --> 00:06:48.346
It's called teach better team.
00:06:48.346 --> 00:06:54.086
I got connected with them five years ago, so there's blogs there.
00:06:54.086 --> 00:07:01.526
I've written blogs, there's many other people that write blogs and then there's podcasts about 45, including mine and you know they.
00:07:01.526 --> 00:07:13.574
They do have some professional development events, either some live like webinars, or sometimes they've had these 12 hour lives where they have different guest speakers for 12 hours straight.
00:07:13.574 --> 00:07:27.940
They had a couple of conferences a couple of years ago, and so I think that's a good way to do like online networking networking.
00:07:27.980 --> 00:07:31.809
But also you know the social media piece in terms of if you are part of an organization that might be a state organization.
00:07:31.809 --> 00:07:38.509
That's something that I'm responsible for as president of Colorado Congress for language teachers.
00:07:38.509 --> 00:07:59.833
You know trying to get the word out there to help promote conferences that we're holding or other professional development events, and we've learned that, you know, not everybody interacts with the social media, so trying to get that sent through email blasts and also word of mouth.
00:07:59.833 --> 00:08:11.173
If there's people in leadership positions in different districts in the state that they can also send out emails to their people, that might be part of the organization as well.
00:08:11.173 --> 00:08:19.665
So it really depends on social media, where people access that, and people are part of Facebook groups.
00:08:19.665 --> 00:08:24.855
But there's also a lot of people who are on Instagram or TikTok nowadays.
00:08:24.855 --> 00:08:28.762
There's also a lot of people who are on Instagram or TikTok nowadays.
00:08:28.762 --> 00:08:38.548
So it's it's really kind of evolved and, um, you know, I think you just have to find where you get most uh, uh analytics of, of interaction from, from the people you're trying to reach.
00:08:39.340 --> 00:08:56.869
Yeah, so the marketing you know, going across different platforms and different methods is really a key there, because you don't want to just segment just one area but you want to make sure you broaden it out and can target the audience that you need to and meet them where they're at Right and make sure that they yeah, they have what they need.
00:08:56.869 --> 00:09:12.567
If they're like you said, if they're not on social media that much but they check their email or they do good with word of mouth, you know you could always get, like, you know, little flyers out there or something, digital flyers or something say hey, this is coming up and make sure you you know if you can to come.
00:09:12.567 --> 00:09:13.369
So that's great.
00:09:13.369 --> 00:09:16.302
Yeah, it's really nice having those, those networks.
00:09:16.302 --> 00:09:22.586
They have that for instructional design too, you know, on like LinkedIn and stuff like that.
00:09:22.586 --> 00:09:24.974
So it's really nice to have those available.
00:09:25.957 --> 00:09:28.384
And they have closed groups that are there too.
00:09:28.384 --> 00:09:36.730
So it's nice to have some of those opportunities where you know it's a little bit more exclusive and you can get some hands-on type of support as well.
00:09:36.730 --> 00:09:37.793
So that's great.
00:09:37.793 --> 00:09:44.413
Yeah, I love that You're able to champion for that and be there for them, so that's great.
00:09:44.413 --> 00:09:47.863
Able to champion for that and be there for them, so that's great.
00:09:47.863 --> 00:09:58.653
So, as we know that sometimes women have unique challenges of being leaders in today's educational climate, what do you think are some of those challenges that particularly women like us face in today's educational climate?
00:10:00.100 --> 00:10:09.840
I think there are often like principals at the elementary level, um, sometimes at the middle and high school level, but not as often.
00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:14.131
So I think that's also just getting more principals at the secondary level.
00:10:14.131 --> 00:10:22.283
Um, I also think in terms of like district leadership, because that's where I um, you know, I I most familiar with.
00:10:22.283 --> 00:10:24.807
You know K-12 school systems, so, um, there aren't enough women.
00:10:24.807 --> 00:10:31.302
You know K-12 school systems, so, um, there aren't enough women leaders in my opinion, in in district leadership for the organization.
00:10:31.302 --> 00:10:48.696
Um, I also think giving more people who are maybe in a teaching role, leadership opportunities, whether it's chairing committees, whether it's, you know, starting different.
00:10:48.696 --> 00:11:00.539
It could be clubs or other things for students to maybe fundraise or something like that, things for students to maybe fundraise or something like that.
00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:04.923
You know, a lot of the time the leaders have to find that themselves right and advocate for it.
00:11:06.206 --> 00:11:12.538
I think some challenges also could be that family and home balance.
00:11:14.164 --> 00:11:24.615
You know it's traditionally still, unfortunately, the mom who asked to get the kids a lot and and you know it's traditionally still, unfortunately, the mom who asked to get the kids a lot and, you know, be there and pick up the groceries.
00:11:24.615 --> 00:11:50.734
So I think that that's sometimes an issue when you know there's maybe not an equal balance in the spousal responsibilities equal balance in the spousal responsibilities and if there is a female leader who has a lot more obligations maybe later in the day they can't always be at some of those school events or pick up their kids from school it can be a challenge.
00:11:50.734 --> 00:12:19.466
So, yeah, and I think also just for women leaders getting the opportunity to speak, or for me I've always put out my name and sent the proposals in and contacted places to speak at, but I think some people need that, what they have to share.
00:12:19.466 --> 00:12:27.030
So I think that's something I'd like to see more of in leadership conferences more women who maybe don't have as much speaking experience but have a lot to share, who'd like to get into the speaking profession.
00:12:27.711 --> 00:12:34.493
That's a great idea because that's something that another guest that was on my show mentioned to me after we talked.
00:12:34.633 --> 00:12:52.356
He said I can send you information about someone that can help you get like a good like social, like plug for conferences, and then you can start off doing virtual ones and then you can get paid for them, and I'm like, well, that's a really good idea and it's something I've always thought of in the back of my head.
00:12:52.456 --> 00:12:54.647
But now it's with you talking about it too.
00:12:54.647 --> 00:12:57.796
It's kind of brought it to the forefront of my mind.
00:12:57.796 --> 00:13:08.826
So I'm like, yeah, that would be nice to be able to do that and share some of that information, especially being in education for so long in higher education, and be able to share some of that.
00:13:08.826 --> 00:13:22.402
And then I see you know leaders within the university going to conferences and coming back, and I'm like that would be really unique and I think it adds to the depth of someone's experience, and especially for women.
00:13:22.402 --> 00:13:38.595
You know they can add that to their resume or their CV and be able to, you know, incorporate that and then get more speaking engagements, like you said, and have that opportunity to really have their voice heard and advocate for the students as well.
00:13:38.595 --> 00:13:43.436
So that's important, yeah, and advocate for the profession right as a whole as well.
00:13:43.856 --> 00:14:00.649
Yeah, yeah, it's always good to hear from people at conferences who are in the trenches and working with the students, cause there there are a lot of people who are full-time speakers and consultants who do the work and speak at conferences and might lead those sessions, but for me I can.
00:14:00.649 --> 00:14:04.177
I can tell a lot of the time who's actually doing the work.
00:14:04.177 --> 00:14:13.049
Um, and you know who knows those stories from what they're currently doing, as opposed to somebody who might've just learned about.
00:14:13.049 --> 00:14:17.054
You know a certain thing that they're trying to sell the schools as a training platform.
00:14:17.054 --> 00:14:17.461
Um, and they're just kind of going through the motions.
00:14:17.395 --> 00:14:20.674
So you know a certain thing that they're trying to sell the schools as a training platform and they're just kind of going through the motions.
00:14:20.674 --> 00:14:25.590
So, yeah, there's a lot to be said for people who have that hands on experience.
00:14:26.331 --> 00:14:34.638
Right, that's true, instead of, like you said, the people that are constantly in it all the time and it becomes probably repetition for them.
00:14:34.638 --> 00:14:39.336
They get, they just get so entrenched in it, right, and it just becomes second nature for them.
00:14:39.336 --> 00:14:42.804
But for those that want to, you want that fresh perspective.
00:14:42.804 --> 00:14:49.586
I think that's that can be valuable, for that, to have that fresh look and perspective at things for sure.
00:14:49.586 --> 00:14:50.788
Yeah, I like that.
00:14:50.788 --> 00:14:52.172
That's great.
00:14:52.172 --> 00:14:56.686
Yeah, are there any other challenges you think like, especially today?
00:14:56.686 --> 00:15:02.693
You know, with the landscape, with technology, do you see that it can be challenging?
00:15:02.693 --> 00:15:05.356
With the way technology keeps evolving?
00:15:05.356 --> 00:15:24.626
Now with AI, I mean, it's all over the place has recently changed and so I'm sure K through 12 is facing that too, with, you know, making sure that there's that ethical part of it and integrity and things like that if students are using it as well.
00:15:25.568 --> 00:15:30.707
Yeah, I think a lot of the time it's the organization who has to figure out what kind of policy they're going to use.
00:15:30.707 --> 00:15:43.616
And a lot of schools throughout the US in different states and districts have last year a lot of them, it was in the news adopted a cell phone policy finally, like district-wide, which is about time.
00:15:43.616 --> 00:15:46.811
I mean, how long have we had the smartphone right?
00:15:47.152 --> 00:15:58.068
But, now, like where I'm at, they're using yonder pouches so the phones are locked up in these pouches and the kids can't access them during the day.
00:15:58.068 --> 00:16:06.576
So I do think you know okay, that was an initiative a year ago and you know it's working, because now we're don't don't have kids who are constantly on their phone during class.
00:16:06.576 --> 00:16:26.794
But then the next thing is also developing policies, especially at the high school level, because that'll feed into the university level, because there are a lot of kids at the high school level because I've taught English at high school who are trying to use ChatGPT or whatever AI to do their assignments.
00:16:26.794 --> 00:16:33.892
It's not always easy for teachers to be able to figure that out.
00:16:33.892 --> 00:16:45.990
It needs to be a school-wide or district-wide policy and you know having kids learn more academic integrity.
00:16:45.990 --> 00:17:09.775
You know feedback or asking, you know for maybe an outline which could be an AI tool, but you know a lot of those kids just do the whole paper.
00:17:10.786 --> 00:17:12.854
Yeah, it's challenging, yeah for sure.
00:17:12.854 --> 00:17:46.553
And at the university level it's tough because there's some instructors that are they just they're like, they want to police it and I'm like of being able to, you know, sit for a job interview and say that they can use this tool and different tools, like ChatGPT, and they said, yes, it's an essential thing.
00:17:46.553 --> 00:18:07.118
So, you know, we're trying to figure out I think we have pretty much, but just knowing that there's that limitation and but, yeah, giving them the tools that they need to know how to use it ethically, like you said, and yeah, and that academic integrity and digital literacy, things like that, so very important.
00:18:07.118 --> 00:18:10.208
So they're starting to implement this stoplight method.
00:18:10.208 --> 00:18:18.328
Where it's green is like yes, you can use it, and here's the you know the parameters in the assignment, where they explicitly say you can use it.
00:18:18.328 --> 00:18:38.343
And then there's the yellow which is like yes, but you know, with limitations, and then the red is like no, you cannot, you cannot use it for this assignment, because we want you to know, we want to know that you can actually do the work and we can, we can see that you know, you know the content and you're not utilizing something else to supplement that.
00:18:38.343 --> 00:18:40.247
So, yeah, so it's.
00:18:40.247 --> 00:18:41.650
It's good to see that there's.
00:18:41.650 --> 00:18:47.411
You know that the districts are doing that and they're trying to, you know, implement that.
00:18:47.411 --> 00:18:49.174
So yeah, that's great.
00:18:49.556 --> 00:19:01.614
Yeah, it's funny about the cell phone policy, because I saw that I read an article about that that they said 31 states have implemented that with the, that, with the policy, and I'm like it should be all across right.
00:19:01.614 --> 00:19:11.954
But yeah, they showed a map and they showed pretty much all of the Western states and the Plains and then a little bit not too much in the East as much.
00:19:11.954 --> 00:19:14.252
The East Coast doesn't really have it as much.
00:19:14.252 --> 00:19:23.051
So it seems like our side of the country, the West coast, we're, we've adopted it sooner and then hopefully the East coast will catch up.
00:19:23.051 --> 00:19:31.679
But yeah, it was very interesting to see the map was all it was pretty much yellow on our, on the one half of the United States, and then the other not quite.
00:19:31.679 --> 00:19:35.261
So yeah, I thought that was Hmm, that's interesting, yeah.
00:19:35.261 --> 00:19:36.483
So, yeah, I thought that was Hmm, that's interesting.
00:19:36.483 --> 00:19:40.913
It's usually, usually it's like East and West coast and then it all comes together.
00:19:40.913 --> 00:19:45.990
But yeah, I thought it was kind of kind of unique for sure, but, as I said, it took long enough.
00:19:46.085 --> 00:19:50.676
Like it's like yeah because I've had the phones for years and they've lost instructional time.
00:19:50.676 --> 00:20:07.096
And now, oh, now that there's all this research on, like, oh, social, emotional, like, there's been research, there's been bullying, all this, you know stuff that's coming from cell phones, but like it took them that long to finally realize, okay, maybe we need to do something as a system about it.
00:20:07.698 --> 00:20:12.236
Right, I'm hoping that it doesn't take that long for AI to come around.
00:20:12.424 --> 00:20:14.410
Yeah, well, it's evolving so fast.
00:20:14.410 --> 00:20:16.474
And schools aren't keeping up with it.
00:20:17.096 --> 00:20:18.286
Right, that's true.
00:20:18.286 --> 00:20:23.198
Yeah, so hopefully they can wrap their minds around it a little bit more.
00:20:23.198 --> 00:20:28.036
And because, as they say, the cat's out of the bag and can't put it back in.
00:20:28.036 --> 00:20:31.490
Once it's out, as they say, it's not going anywhere.
00:20:31.490 --> 00:20:39.145
So, yeah, that's true, true.
00:20:39.145 --> 00:20:49.811
So are there any tips and advice that you'd like to share with those who are currently in the instructional design program that I teach at Grand Canyon University, or just maybe even in general, you know, since instructional design is an education type of industry as well?
00:20:50.853 --> 00:20:51.354
Mm-hmm.
00:20:51.354 --> 00:21:06.643
Really, I think, just knowing your audience, knowing what the outcomes are, looking at the bigger picture first and scaffolding it's like you would do for a lesson for kids.
00:21:06.643 --> 00:21:19.696
You want to make sure you have different ways of teaching it for different learners, of teaching it for different learners.
00:21:19.696 --> 00:21:27.944
You know making sure also that everything like if you're building an online course, for example you don't always want to have the same set of types of assignments.
00:21:27.944 --> 00:21:31.134
I think you know that's something that can get a little bit repetitive.
00:21:31.134 --> 00:22:06.296
But if you're looking from for different things for different students for a variety of reasons, you want to vary up the types of assignments and also the expectations of what you would want students to do, keeping the expectations clear.
00:22:06.296 --> 00:22:07.538
But also, you know, serving different learning needs.
00:22:07.538 --> 00:22:12.265
You know visual, auditory or kinesthetic learning, which sometimes if you're teaching online, it's not easy for kinesthetic, but you could also incorporate maybe an activity where you know a student's out in nature.
00:22:12.265 --> 00:22:16.330
You know using something that they find out in nature and writing about it or something like that.
00:22:16.414 --> 00:22:22.387
Right there are opportunities to teach to all those learning styles.
00:22:23.375 --> 00:22:24.558
Right, that's so important.
00:22:24.558 --> 00:22:35.826
Yeah, that authentic assessment yeah, I worked on courses before I opened it up like a psychology course and it was eight topics, eight papers all throughout.
00:22:35.826 --> 00:22:44.967
It was eight topics, eight papers all throughout, and I thought, wow, not only is that daunting and boring for the students, but for the faculty that have to grade those.
00:22:44.967 --> 00:22:58.183
I can't imagine having a paper, you know, and they were like 500 to 750 word, and then some of them were larger, and so by the time I think it got to topic seven, they were up to like 2000 words and I'm thinking, wow, burnout by the end.
00:22:58.183 --> 00:23:08.887
They would not want to write anymore after that and I and yeah, I wouldn't want to be the instructor grading those either Eight with eight papers, yeah, so that's tough I like.
00:23:08.887 --> 00:23:09.996
Yeah, so that's great.
00:23:10.236 --> 00:23:13.862
And the scaffolding, you know, that's definitely important as well.
00:23:13.862 --> 00:23:19.855
Yeah, At any level, right, and being able to to do that, yeah, that's great.
00:23:19.855 --> 00:23:23.964
Yeah, I love that because that's something that we advocate for.
00:23:23.964 --> 00:23:28.261
And and that authentic assessment can be so helpful, especially with AI.
00:23:28.261 --> 00:23:39.337
Right, being able to, you know, go beyond what a P, a paper, and giving them something that they can do, that's more authentic and real world that they'll face as well.
00:23:39.337 --> 00:23:40.221
So that's important.
00:23:40.221 --> 00:23:47.057
Yeah, kind of helps with both to be able to do that yeah, absolutely that's great.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:51.046
Yeah, is there anything else you can think of that would be good advice?
00:23:51.046 --> 00:24:19.964
Um, you know, for for this type the type of role because I I know in K through 12, usually sometimes it's called they're called them instructional designers, sometimes they refer to them as curriculum coaches, but kind of in that realm right of being able to to help with curriculum and professional development and those types of things A lot of my students like to do and what they want to go into is helping more with professional development, training and being able to help with the curriculum areas.
00:24:19.964 --> 00:24:22.269
It's really, really exciting to see that.
00:24:23.095 --> 00:24:48.695
Yeah, I think you know, for students who might be going into working on, you know, professional development for adults, it's really knowing that sometimes if you're working with teachers, sometimes they can be the worst students, you know, and the teachers don't always appreciate some of the types of activities, like you know, going around and writing on, you know, putting sticky notes on chart paper and those types of things.
00:24:48.695 --> 00:25:07.505
You know I mean there's different things that can be done and just making sure that you're using your time wisely, like I was at a professional development today that they had a three and a half hour time slot but it only took them half that time but then they didn't want you to let people out so early.
00:25:07.505 --> 00:25:15.943
So for about 45 minutes of the extra time people are just sitting there like work with your school on how you're going to implement this, but we don't know when it're going to implement this.
00:25:15.943 --> 00:25:18.176
But we, you know we don't know when it's going to be implemented.
00:25:18.176 --> 00:25:20.402
So you know, I mean a lot of the time.
00:25:20.482 --> 00:25:48.070
It's like also knowing how much time things are going to take, versus keeping people, uh, because they're supposed to fulfill a certain amount of hours, right, that continuing education yeah, yeah so just, uh, I would say, be respectful of people's time but also give them activities that they might be able to complete at home, or, uh, via some type of assignment that's, you know, going to be asynchronous, and do a week or two later, or something like that.
00:25:48.070 --> 00:25:49.595
That's a good idea, you know.
00:25:49.595 --> 00:26:01.585
It's good, uh, for if you're doing a course, for teachers to do some independent work as well, or come back after they've implemented it in the classroom and have a little bit of time to think about it.
00:26:02.276 --> 00:26:03.059
That's a great idea.
00:26:03.059 --> 00:26:21.123
Doing more blended approaches where, yeah, where they can do maybe some pre-work before they come in to the in-person portion, do that and then, as you mentioned, do some of it at home or be able to do like a call to action, where that's what we do in a lot of our professional development.
00:26:21.123 --> 00:26:29.621
We'll give them a call to action and then 30 days later, we'll follow up, we'll do a 30 minute follow up session and we'll say, okay, how have you implemented this?
00:26:29.621 --> 00:26:30.423
What are you doing?
00:26:30.423 --> 00:26:36.826
Share some you know, some stories, some feedback, and then they can, they can ask questions and things like that.
00:26:36.906 --> 00:27:06.355
So, breaking it up a little bit more instead of having like one long two hour session, it really helps because then people are so, as we know, you know, educators are so busy, so being able to, like you said, respect that time and make it valuable for them and then they don't complain about it Right and go, that was a waste of my time and, yeah, I don't, I don't want to do that ever again, and some of my students have have mentioned that before.
00:27:06.355 --> 00:27:06.998
They're like yeah, I went to the.
00:27:06.998 --> 00:27:22.426
You know, there's like a discussion question in one of the classes and it talks about what was the experience that was either just wasn't effective or you think could be changed, and what would you do to change it as far as training or professional development, and they really, uh, they really go into that.
00:27:22.426 --> 00:27:30.298
So it's very interesting to hear their stories and and um kind of read it and and know that, yeah, they experience it too.
00:27:30.298 --> 00:27:36.708
So, yeah, that's that's interesting for, yeah, that's good advice Absolutely.
00:27:37.528 --> 00:27:39.655
I like that Great.
00:27:39.655 --> 00:27:43.625
Is there anything else you wanted to share with the listeners?
00:27:43.625 --> 00:27:45.634
Anything else that comes to mind?
00:27:46.897 --> 00:27:50.807
Well, I mentioned my book Out of the Trenches Stories of Resilient Educators.
00:27:50.807 --> 00:27:57.101
That's available on Amazon and you know, even if your students aren't going into, you know teaching roles.
00:27:57.101 --> 00:28:10.179
It's really that type of book where you're thinking about the role that you're doing within even edu adjacent what instructional design is Right, and, you know, exploring the why.
00:28:10.179 --> 00:28:11.519
What got you into that?
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:19.611
You know, and after you know a year or two, or if you're in a trench, asking yourself, is this still fulfilling your why?
00:28:19.611 --> 00:28:30.769
And exploring like, maybe, if you're writing for a certain audience, maybe consider writing for a different audience for a while.
00:28:30.769 --> 00:28:39.877
Right, you could be writing for elementary ed as opposed to adult ed, you know, and that's still developing curricula.
00:28:39.877 --> 00:28:42.063
So I think that's.
00:28:42.063 --> 00:28:54.038
There are definitely tips and you know there's different talking points and you know it's a type of a workbook where people can ask themselves and discuss questions with colleagues.
00:28:54.038 --> 00:28:56.465
So definitely pick that up.
00:28:56.886 --> 00:28:59.240
People can listen to my podcast out of the trenches.
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:03.957
I know you have my YouTube channel linked and you can also access them on Apple.
00:29:03.957 --> 00:29:12.398
Wherever you get your podcast, there's a new episode every week and, yeah, just follow me on social media.
00:29:12.398 --> 00:29:25.623
And if you have any questions about, you know, maybe getting into K-12 instructional design and professional development, but not quite sure how to go about it.
00:29:25.623 --> 00:29:30.319
Just send me a message and I'll try to help you.
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:34.855
You know, answer your questions about, you know, getting into that space?
00:29:34.855 --> 00:29:35.273
That would be great.
00:29:35.233 --> 00:29:35.494
I love that.
00:29:35.494 --> 00:29:35.694
Thank you, dana.
00:29:35.694 --> 00:29:37.035
I appreciate that because that you know getting into that space, that would be great.
00:29:37.035 --> 00:29:37.154
I love that.
00:29:37.154 --> 00:29:37.496
Thank you, dana.
00:29:37.496 --> 00:29:59.648
I appreciate that because that you know that's a good point because a lot of my students, when they when they get their portfolio put together, if they're in K through 12 or they're in corporate or higher ed in some capacity especially my students that are in K through 12 education they tend to, their artifacts tend to and their projects tend to be focused on that area that they're in.
00:29:59.648 --> 00:30:06.663
And I always let them know you need to have a diversified portfolio because we are going to apply for jobs.
00:30:07.194 --> 00:30:27.720
I mean, instructional design is so varied it can be anything from K through 12, corporate, military, nonprofit so they have to be able to think outside of that realm of what they're in, and so I always mention to them go outside your comfort zone a little bit it's kind of what you mentioned and be able to do that.
00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:28.863
So that's great.
00:30:28.863 --> 00:30:29.825
I love that.
00:30:29.825 --> 00:30:30.988
Thank you so much.
00:30:30.988 --> 00:30:37.340
Yeah, I'll make sure to link everything in the show notes so that way everybody has that, and that's great.
00:30:37.340 --> 00:30:44.902
You have your podcast that comes out every week too, so it's great to know that there's educational podcasts out there that are serving the community.
00:30:44.902 --> 00:30:46.806
I love it, great.
00:30:46.806 --> 00:30:54.837
Well, thank you so much for being on the show today, and I look forward to having my listeners gain some great insight and picking up your book as well.
00:30:56.182 --> 00:30:57.586
Thanks so much for having me.
00:30:58.214 --> 00:30:59.381
Thank you, dana, appreciate it.
00:30:59.381 --> 00:31:03.746
Thank you for taking some time to listen to this podcast episode today.
00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:04.107
00:00:04.107 --> 00:00:11.753
00:00:11.753 --> 00:00:21.722
00:00:21.722 --> 00:00:24.248
00:00:24.248 --> 00:00:28.929
00:00:28.929 --> 00:00:30.844
00:00:30.844 --> 00:00:33.465
00:00:33.465 --> 00:00:36.704
00:00:36.704 --> 00:00:39.051
00:00:40.261 --> 00:00:43.185
00:00:43.185 --> 00:00:48.875
00:00:48.875 --> 00:00:57.770
00:00:57.770 --> 00:01:12.572
00:01:12.572 --> 00:01:17.947
00:01:17.947 --> 00:01:23.500
00:01:23.500 --> 00:01:41.903
00:01:41.903 --> 00:01:47.855
00:01:47.855 --> 00:02:01.454
00:02:02.756 --> 00:02:03.257
00:02:03.257 --> 00:02:10.028
00:02:10.028 --> 00:02:15.906
00:02:15.906 --> 00:02:17.409
00:02:17.409 --> 00:02:24.670
00:02:24.670 --> 00:02:26.454
00:02:26.454 --> 00:02:31.741
00:02:33.223 --> 00:02:47.061
00:02:47.140 --> 00:03:04.870
00:03:04.870 --> 00:03:08.241
00:03:08.241 --> 00:03:10.969
00:03:10.969 --> 00:03:15.866
00:03:15.866 --> 00:03:19.634
00:03:19.634 --> 00:03:24.888
00:03:24.888 --> 00:03:43.432
00:03:43.432 --> 00:03:54.251
00:03:54.931 --> 00:03:55.612
00:03:55.612 --> 00:03:59.931
00:03:59.931 --> 00:04:14.673
00:04:14.673 --> 00:04:31.384
00:04:31.425 --> 00:04:44.689
00:04:44.749 --> 00:04:50.048
00:04:50.048 --> 00:04:57.733
00:04:57.733 --> 00:05:09.459
00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:13.028
00:05:13.028 --> 00:05:14.372
00:05:14.372 --> 00:05:26.891
00:05:28.254 --> 00:05:45.567
00:05:45.567 --> 00:05:49.608
00:05:49.608 --> 00:06:10.870
00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:14.848
00:06:14.848 --> 00:06:20.060
00:06:20.341 --> 00:06:25.072
00:06:25.072 --> 00:06:28.427
00:06:28.427 --> 00:06:33.430
00:06:33.430 --> 00:06:46.755
00:06:46.755 --> 00:06:48.346
00:06:48.346 --> 00:06:54.086
00:06:54.086 --> 00:07:01.526
00:07:01.526 --> 00:07:13.574
00:07:13.574 --> 00:07:27.940
00:07:27.980 --> 00:07:31.809
00:07:31.809 --> 00:07:38.509
00:07:38.509 --> 00:07:59.833
00:07:59.833 --> 00:08:11.173
00:08:11.173 --> 00:08:19.665
00:08:19.665 --> 00:08:24.855
00:08:24.855 --> 00:08:28.762
00:08:28.762 --> 00:08:38.548
00:08:39.340 --> 00:08:56.869
00:08:56.869 --> 00:09:12.567
00:09:12.567 --> 00:09:13.369
00:09:13.369 --> 00:09:16.302
00:09:16.302 --> 00:09:22.586
00:09:22.586 --> 00:09:24.974
00:09:25.957 --> 00:09:28.384
00:09:28.384 --> 00:09:36.730
00:09:36.730 --> 00:09:37.793
00:09:37.793 --> 00:09:44.413
00:09:44.413 --> 00:09:47.863
00:09:47.863 --> 00:09:58.653
00:10:00.100 --> 00:10:09.840
00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:14.131
00:10:14.131 --> 00:10:22.283
00:10:22.283 --> 00:10:24.807
00:10:24.807 --> 00:10:31.302
00:10:31.302 --> 00:10:48.696
00:10:48.696 --> 00:11:00.539
00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:04.923
00:11:06.206 --> 00:11:12.538
00:11:14.164 --> 00:11:24.615
00:11:24.615 --> 00:11:50.734
00:11:50.734 --> 00:12:19.466
00:12:19.466 --> 00:12:27.030
00:12:27.711 --> 00:12:34.493
00:12:34.633 --> 00:12:52.356
00:12:52.456 --> 00:12:54.647
00:12:54.647 --> 00:12:57.796
00:12:57.796 --> 00:13:08.826
00:13:08.826 --> 00:13:22.402
00:13:22.402 --> 00:13:38.595
00:13:38.595 --> 00:13:43.436
00:13:43.856 --> 00:14:00.649
00:14:00.649 --> 00:14:04.177
00:14:04.177 --> 00:14:13.049
00:14:13.049 --> 00:14:17.054
00:14:17.054 --> 00:14:17.461
00:14:17.395 --> 00:14:20.674
00:14:20.674 --> 00:14:25.590
00:14:26.331 --> 00:14:34.638
00:14:34.638 --> 00:14:39.336
00:14:39.336 --> 00:14:42.804
00:14:42.804 --> 00:14:49.586
00:14:49.586 --> 00:14:50.788
00:14:50.788 --> 00:14:52.172
00:14:52.172 --> 00:14:56.686
00:14:56.686 --> 00:15:02.693
00:15:02.693 --> 00:15:05.356
00:15:05.356 --> 00:15:24.626
00:15:25.568 --> 00:15:30.707
00:15:30.707 --> 00:15:43.616
00:15:43.616 --> 00:15:46.811
00:15:47.152 --> 00:15:58.068
00:15:58.068 --> 00:16:06.576
00:16:06.576 --> 00:16:26.794
00:16:26.794 --> 00:16:33.892
00:16:33.892 --> 00:16:45.990
00:16:45.990 --> 00:17:09.775
00:17:10.786 --> 00:17:12.854
00:17:12.854 --> 00:17:46.553
00:17:46.553 --> 00:18:07.118
00:18:07.118 --> 00:18:10.208
00:18:10.208 --> 00:18:18.328
00:18:18.328 --> 00:18:38.343
00:18:38.343 --> 00:18:40.247
00:18:40.247 --> 00:18:41.650
00:18:41.650 --> 00:18:47.411
00:18:47.411 --> 00:18:49.174
00:18:49.556 --> 00:19:01.614
00:19:01.614 --> 00:19:11.954
00:19:11.954 --> 00:19:14.252
00:19:14.252 --> 00:19:23.051
00:19:23.051 --> 00:19:31.679
00:19:31.679 --> 00:19:35.261
00:19:35.261 --> 00:19:36.483
00:19:36.483 --> 00:19:40.913
00:19:40.913 --> 00:19:45.990
00:19:46.085 --> 00:19:50.676
00:19:50.676 --> 00:20:07.096
00:20:07.698 --> 00:20:12.236
00:20:12.424 --> 00:20:14.410
00:20:14.410 --> 00:20:16.474
00:20:17.096 --> 00:20:18.286
00:20:18.286 --> 00:20:23.198
00:20:23.198 --> 00:20:28.036
00:20:28.036 --> 00:20:31.490
00:20:31.490 --> 00:20:39.145
00:20:39.145 --> 00:20:49.811
00:20:50.853 --> 00:20:51.354
00:20:51.354 --> 00:21:06.643
00:21:06.643 --> 00:21:19.696
00:21:19.696 --> 00:21:27.944
00:21:27.944 --> 00:21:31.134
00:21:31.134 --> 00:22:06.296
00:22:06.296 --> 00:22:07.538
00:22:07.538 --> 00:22:12.265
00:22:12.265 --> 00:22:16.330
00:22:16.414 --> 00:22:22.387
00:22:23.375 --> 00:22:24.558
00:22:24.558 --> 00:22:35.826
00:22:35.826 --> 00:22:44.967
00:22:44.967 --> 00:22:58.183
00:22:58.183 --> 00:23:08.887
00:23:08.887 --> 00:23:09.996
00:23:10.236 --> 00:23:13.862
00:23:13.862 --> 00:23:19.855
00:23:19.855 --> 00:23:23.964
00:23:23.964 --> 00:23:28.261
00:23:28.261 --> 00:23:39.337
00:23:39.337 --> 00:23:40.221
00:23:40.221 --> 00:23:47.057
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:51.046
00:23:51.046 --> 00:24:19.964
00:24:19.964 --> 00:24:22.269
00:24:23.095 --> 00:24:48.695
00:24:48.695 --> 00:25:07.505
00:25:07.505 --> 00:25:15.943
00:25:15.943 --> 00:25:18.176
00:25:18.176 --> 00:25:20.402
00:25:20.482 --> 00:25:48.070
00:25:48.070 --> 00:25:49.595
00:25:49.595 --> 00:26:01.585
00:26:02.276 --> 00:26:03.059
00:26:03.059 --> 00:26:21.123
00:26:21.123 --> 00:26:29.621
00:26:29.621 --> 00:26:30.423
00:26:30.423 --> 00:26:36.826
00:26:36.906 --> 00:27:06.355
00:27:06.355 --> 00:27:06.998
00:27:06.998 --> 00:27:22.426
00:27:22.426 --> 00:27:30.298
00:27:30.298 --> 00:27:36.708
00:27:37.528 --> 00:27:39.655
00:27:39.655 --> 00:27:43.625
00:27:43.625 --> 00:27:45.634
00:27:46.897 --> 00:27:50.807
00:27:50.807 --> 00:27:57.101
00:27:57.101 --> 00:28:10.179
00:28:10.179 --> 00:28:11.519
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:19.611
00:28:19.611 --> 00:28:30.769
00:28:30.769 --> 00:28:39.877
00:28:39.877 --> 00:28:42.063
00:28:42.063 --> 00:28:54.038
00:28:54.038 --> 00:28:56.465
00:28:56.886 --> 00:28:59.240
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:03.957
00:29:03.957 --> 00:29:12.398
00:29:12.398 --> 00:29:25.623
00:29:25.623 --> 00:29:30.319
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:34.855
00:29:34.855 --> 00:29:35.273
00:29:35.233 --> 00:29:35.494
00:29:35.494 --> 00:29:35.694
00:29:35.694 --> 00:29:37.035
00:29:37.035 --> 00:29:37.154
00:29:37.154 --> 00:29:37.496
00:29:37.496 --> 00:29:59.648
00:29:59.648 --> 00:30:06.663
00:30:07.194 --> 00:30:27.720
00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:28.863
00:30:28.863 --> 00:30:29.825
00:30:29.825 --> 00:30:30.988
00:30:30.988 --> 00:30:37.340
00:30:37.340 --> 00:30:44.902
00:30:44.902 --> 00:30:46.806
00:30:46.806 --> 00:30:54.837
00:30:56.182 --> 00:30:57.586
00:30:58.214 --> 00:30:59.381
00:30:59.381 --> 00:31:03.746