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Hello and welcome to the Designing with Love podcast.
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I am your host, Jackie Pelegrin, where my goal is to bring you information, tips, and tricks as an instructional designer.
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Hello instructional designers and educators, welcome to episode 60 of the Designing with Love podcast.
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I'm thrilled to have Dr Albert Bramante, a veteran talent agent, coach, and college professor, with me today.
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Welcome, Albert.
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Thank you, Jackie.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm really happy to be here.
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Yes, I'm happy to have you here as well, thank you.
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So, to start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and share what led you to focus on education and psychology?
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Well, I've always been interested in knowledge and interested in learning.
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I had a strong love for learning, I was always a book reader and I think teaching is kind of and education is kind of in my blood and DNA, because my mom was a teacher, an elementary school teacher, first grade for 30 years, and my father and oldest brother, while they weren't in formal education, they were coaches, you know, physically, athletic coaches.
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So I think the combination of coaching and teaching kind of just was in my DNA and I always had a daydream, even when I was in like middle school or high school, that I'd be in front of the classroom and teaching and I couldn't wait to receive my master's degree because I was going to finally be able to teach at the college level.
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I didn't, incidentally enough, I had really no interest in K-12 education.
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I mean, you know I don't want to brag, but having a mom in the system, I probably could have gotten a job over a traditional candidate very easily.
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I didn't want to.
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You know, that was not my.
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I don't think I would have had the patience or the you know, the ability to work with children and teens, but I wanted to teach.
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After I received my master's degree, I put my resume into community college in my neighborhood for adjuncts in all different disciplines.
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It wasn't specific, so I put in for psychology.
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I didn't hear anything for like two years and it was after Labor Day weekend.
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I was looking for a job because I was working in the social service sector for a couple of years and I was in a grant-funded position after 9-11, and the grant ended.
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So I was in my position.
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So I was looking for a job and I remember getting a phone call the day after Labor Day in 2003.
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And they had asked me you know if I'm available, you know, to come and have a conversation.
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I didn't know what it was.
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I was like sure, you know.
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I was like I wasn't doing anything.
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So I went down the same day.
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It was like an hour early and I was there.
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They asked me you know what my availability was?
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I said you know I'm fairly available.
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I said we call it the win year because two adjunct faculty members backed out on us the last minute, the day before classes begin.
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We need someone to fill in.
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Lo and behold.
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I said I'm available.
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They didn't even ask what my background was.
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They didn't ask me anything, they just said great.
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Next thing I hear I see her, the secretary, printing stuff off the computer.
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Not knowing anything, she goes oh, here's your class list.
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You start tomorrow.
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Oh my gosh, albert.
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Wow, now I was just like walking out of the in the right home asking myself what just happened, because now I had four classes, not just one, but four, Not just one, but four, Three.
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You know there were three sections of one class and then one section of another class.
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There were three sections of child psych and one section of psych 101, which is the 102, where you teach at to work at, I should say so 102.
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So it was 101.
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Well, okay, what do I do Now?
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I had no formal training in education.
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So what I did?
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I said, okay, let me channel the teachers I liked.
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I made a list of all the teachers I liked and I said, okay, what are the qualities?
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What do they do?
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Why do they like them?
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And then I made another list of teachers that I wasn't crazy about.
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What were they doing?
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So I don't do that.
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So I didn't sleep that night out.
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I mean, I was a nervous wreck.
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I walk into the college, I walk into class and I just started ad-libbing like crazy and brought them.
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So improvisation was really valuable here.
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Yeah, I'm sure, because I couldn't.
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I couldn't tell the students.
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You know, hi, my name is Professor Vermonti.
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I have no idea what I'm doing.
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But here we go, because that was the truth.
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I have no idea what I'm doing and for the whole semester it was pretty much I have no idea what I'm doing, but in a sense I did because it was like more my intuition, I've always wanted to be at that moment what I'm doing.
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But I, in a sense, I did because I it was like more my intuition and when I, you know, I've always wanted to be at that moment, I think that was like the one thing that didn't like like cause me to totally freak out, because I said, you know, I waited my life to get here.
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And here I am, I'm teaching, I get to do what I love and you know, and I think that kind of propelled me forward.
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And then I realized how much I like it and how much I was just enjoying myself up there, talking and having conversations with the students and just immensely enjoying it.
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And at the end, towards the end, as the semester was wrapping up, a lot of students were coming up and saying this is my favorite class, keep it up.
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You know you're doing great.
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I love this class and you know I'm like, you know, keeping it calm and cool in front of them.
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But of course I wanted to jump up and down and, you know, and swing from the chandeliers, right, because I was so happy.
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I was so happy and surprised, but happy.
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And then once you know at the end, like you know that, because at that time I was, I was a lot younger well, um, they had said to me like you're really young, you you must have been teaching for a while.
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And I went, yeah, and I lied, I was like no, this is my first semester really.
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So that was fall 2003 and I've been doing it ever since now, 2025.
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So what I like about it is I get to share a passion of mine and I get to share knowledge, I get to have conversations and I learn from my students, and I think one thing that really goes, really helps with learning a subject, is being able to teach it, because I can tell you I learned probably just as much about psychology from teaching it than I did during my formal education.
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Yeah, I would agree with you on that.
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Yeah, so important yeah it's so important to be able to teach you know, because so I mean, that's the one thing I would say is that really helped me.
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I think you would appreciate it even more because how much I'm learning each time I'm teaching.
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I'm like this is amazing how much I know about you know, about my field, and I'm still learning and I'm still, you know, evolving.
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So the important thing, I think, for any educators to have a growth mindset and to keep learning.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, that's so important.
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Yeah, I love that Because you know you don't want to become stagnant, right?
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And yeah, I noticed that when I started teaching almost four years ago in the field that I'm in, in instructional design, it really opened up my eyes to different things and it helped me deepen my knowledge and my skills and I feel like I'm better at my full-time job as an instructional designer because I teach and I'm able to empathize, I think a little bit more than I used to, and I understand the faculty, what their issues are, because I worked with subject matter experts every day that are faculty teaching, not in the same discipline but a different discipline.
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But yeah, it makes such a?
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huge difference when you can do, and I like what you said too, about how you learn from your students and they learn from you.
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It's a two way street and I, I love that because I don't want to be the one and we both don't.
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We want, we don't want to be the one teaching at them, we want to be teaching with them, with them I, I think there's.
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We can even add a third element, which that sounds I mean, not only they, I'm learning from them, but they're learning from each other.
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So it's like a trifecta, you know, they're, they're, I'm obviously they're learning from me, but I'm learning from them and they're learning from each other.
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So, and that was a big thing like for me.
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You know, on all my classes I really emphasize participation and class participation.
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So that is so important, you know, for me is to um really bring that in there, um, the importance of participation, because, again, we're running from each other, we're not, and I want to hear what they have to say.
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And I think, you know, I've always been a proponent of you know, we're adults and if I want my, you know, and every faculty member, I'm sure, wants their students to respect them.
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But if you want them to respect you as a teacher, you as a teacher need to and should respect the student.
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Right yeah, absolutely so important.
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That is so important and I don't want to turn turn this into a you know um, a trash talk.
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But I've seen, both as a student and even as a faculty member, other colleagues of mine that were like, what are you doing?
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Yeah, and a lot of times they would have students that were comfortable enough that would come to me like crying speak to, said this to me is the result of that to me, and I know who they're talking about.
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Of course, I'm not going to say trash the teacher in front of the student, but in my head I'm like I believe the student that was there, but I believe that happened.
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It's sad, but I believe that that happened.
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So I think the important thing again to be an effective educator is we also need and should demonstrate respect and empathy and compassion for our students Now, having said that, also holding them to academic standards, because there's a fine line between showing compassion and empathy but at the same time, being a pushover, which I have to be honest, again, to be self-reliant and critical, I probably was, in my first, you know, four or five years of teaching, a bit of a pushover, you know, or easygoing, laid back a little too much that's how I was at first.
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Yeah, yeah and that's the same way.
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And then when I had a heard and and what really woke me up to it was hearing other students, you know, say that you know about me, that oh, this professor, a lot of students, and they get advantage of them.
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And I had a couple students even coming with me, you know, even anonymously, send me emails, you know where I know it was like you need to be tougher with some of your students in the class and I was like, okay.
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So I think that there's a fine line between empathy and respect and compassion, but also being firm with standards.
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And the past nine years have been kind of.
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I've been like that.
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I will be empathy if a student is going through a tough time.
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The one thing I will not be empathy and I tell this the first day of class if you stop coming to class and then all of a sudden give me a sob story at the absolute last day of the semester about why you were not, why you were absent and I should still pass you right.
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Yeah, I'm like don't, do not even.
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And I tell students I'm like you might as well not.
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And I have found myself in the past nine years very rarely changing grades, unless I made a slight clerical error, that would be once or twice in the hundreds of students I've had in the past nine years.
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Other than that, I will not change, you know anything.
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Right, Because you're you're wanting to set them up.
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We do.
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We want to set our students up for success so that they can go on to career.
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There's a reason they're going to school, it's not just you know, you have an undergraduate school.
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It's not just a party, but they're actually wanting to get a career and things like that.
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Yeah, and things like that it's preparing them for the real world.
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And that's the real thing, because if I'm late on my rent or on my, landlord and I come and say, well, I'm having these family problems, please grant me an extension or please wipe off the rent, I'm going to get laughed at.
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I'm saying to people if I don't pay my bills, if I come to the your company and say you know hardship, they're going to be like well, tough luck.
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Or the same thing with any job.
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If I'm in a real job, if I'm not doing it, I'll fall on my way, I'm going to be let go.
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Right, absolutely.
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That's why I think you know part of it and I kind of even say like, look, I am showing up as being compassionate by doing that Because I'm, you know, preparing you for the real world.
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Now, if you do work and you're professional and you do have some genuine hardship, I will work with you.
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Yeah, I do the same thing too.
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And, yeah, I will work with you if you have a you.
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You know you reach out to me privately while it's happening about what you're doing.
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I will work with you.
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Like you know, I had some students during the pandemic who uh, is it a mom of themselves?
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You know we're head covid and we're in the hospital.
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Obviously they're not.
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You know their priority is not going to be logging into the zoom class or into the second class and doing the work.
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But they reached out to me while it was happening and I worked with them.
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You know I was like, ok, we'll come up with an alternative, because it's all about professionalism and I think you know it's a saying.
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You know, if you show me respect, I'll show you respect and that's the way it should be, would be true yeah, that's so true.
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Definitely, yeah.
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So what's one piece of advice you would give to someone who feels overwhelmed by self-doubt in a creative field like education or even instructional design?
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Like what, what I do and what my list some of my listeners are going into?
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well, the the main thing is to always take stack of the accomplishments that you've already.
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You've already done.
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So you have the training you, you know.
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Now maybe you might not have training in formal education, like you know I didn't have, but I knew what I was doing, you know, and I had a trust in myself.
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So main thing is, like you know you can do this and really you know, I would probably sit down with someone and say, why did you become a teacher?
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Like, let's talk about that.
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Most likely it's because they want to share their knowledge or to inspire.
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Okay, so let's look each day that you go into that classroom or that you design that curriculum, you're there to inspire your students, One of the things that and I'm going to use a little bit of research here they've done studies that demonstrate it.
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Even before the class, the school or the semester, school year and semester began, the teacher's attitude and mindset made a whole world of a difference.
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So if I walk in like, let's say, at the beginning of the semester, I'm going to have so many great students and I'm going to have a great time, there's a high likelihood that that's going to happen.
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On the other hand, if I say these darn students and I start cursing them out they're so lazy.
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I'm going to have such a rough time.
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That'll happen too.
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So the main thing I would say is try to get energized.
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So the big thing about me with any type of work is taking breaks A lot of times.
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That's so important.
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That's why they call it a summer vacation for a reason, or a summer break a summer vacation for a reason or not focusing so much or stressing out over you know the upcoming year or how you're going to approach it.
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Take time off because sometimes a lot of times burnout burnout is very easy in this profession, unfortunately.
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Right, it's very easy to get burned out and it's harder sometimes to stay inspired.
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So the important thing is to set boundaries and like even set a schedule before the school year begins or the academic term begins, like what you know, obviously your key, what your teaching schedule is and what your design schedule is and what your work schedule is.
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Obviously that's going to take priority, whatever your schedule is.
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But then schedule time in your week for a long time self-care, family time.
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If you have kids, children or a family, spend time for family time and then alone time.
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Try to aim to do at least one thing a week.
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That's great that you enjoy.
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I love that.
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Yeah, that's that reminds me of that self care wheel right when there's each part of the self care wheel that you know we should practice and you know, yeah, so I love that.
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It reminds me of that, because I've been to counseling before, you know, during tough times, and so, yeah, I actually have a copy of the wheel and I'll refer to it and I'll think of my counselor that helped me through that time and so, yeah, and I'm sure that that's used in psychology too, yeah, I mean self-care is vital in this type of work, because that's the biggest factor, factor why we burn out because there is a lack of self-care.
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We don't.
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We're so focusing on, you know, am I helping my students, am I helping other people that we're not helping yourself?
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right, right, that's true.
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Yeah, it can happen in the helping profession quite a bit, and so so, yeah, that self care is so important?
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Absolutely yes, definitely yeah, and that segues into a good part about self esteem.
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So you introduced techniques for raising self esteem in your book.
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Could you share a couple of these techniques and maybe a success?
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Story of someone who's applied.
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Well, well, the main thing is to you know, first thing is to connect back to the reason, the why, and kind of look at every behavior as a positive intention.
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Remain, you know, really focused on the main reason why you want to become an educator or teacher and, you know, having a genuine care for others.
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Now, another thing that's important is the company you keep.
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So really hang out with people that are going, or associate yourself with people that are positive minded, people that are all about improving themselves and just not about negative negativity.
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About negative negativity, unfortunately, sometimes can happen when you're in school or you know whether in second you know, secondary school or mental school or high school or even college.
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Sometimes you might find that you, you know, certain faculty circles might vent a lot or kind of moan and complain, and I would say just those are situations as much as possible to remove yourself from it's a good idea, yeah absolutely, because it could easily you can get easily sucked into that right and easily that could easily rub off on you and suck you in yeah, and then it's hard to break away from that right once you, once you get sucked into that.
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Yeah, that's so true.
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Yeah, absolutely yeah, that's.
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That's a great, great benefit, you know, benefit and technique that we can, we can do as educators, and I think even, um, you know, in the creative area of like instructional design, curriculum development, it's uh, that happens too, and the job that that we do as curriculum developers, instructional designers, where I work, it's uh we're constantly just.
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I mean, we do have a little bit of downtime in between the semesters, but uh, you know, during the off semesters, right During fall, you know, cause we have fall and spring, but during those off, times we have to work on their curriculum because we have to get ready for the fall or for the spring.
00:22:03.349 --> 00:22:12.164
So it's uh, you know we do have, so we work on a quarter system, kind of like what you said with uh, you know where you've been to school with Walden.
00:22:12.506 --> 00:22:13.731
So we work on a quarter system.
00:22:13.731 --> 00:22:17.801
So every three months we have a set of courses that we we work on.
00:22:17.801 --> 00:22:24.444
We either new development or revise it, but it's a yeah, it's so important.
00:22:24.444 --> 00:22:42.380
So our department does a good job of that self-care and connection and collaboration with each other, because it's so important, and especially when you feel like you're siloed and isolated, working from home, that can, that can be so easy yeah, yeah and that's a big thing too, that I was going to say it was connection.
00:22:43.083 --> 00:22:57.060
Connection is so important, especially when raising self-esteem, being connected to, to something is so important because, again, we can get lonely lonely and we found this especially during the pandemic during 2020.
00:22:57.060 --> 00:23:13.887
You know, a big thing that was so that was really effective was our mental health, and our mental health was a lot of times affected because of the loneliness that we were experiencing, and that's why we saw, unfortunately, a lot of substance abuse and alcoholism on the rise.
00:23:13.887 --> 00:23:17.826
Because, again, the isolation and connection is important.
00:23:17.826 --> 00:23:24.615
So one thing I would say is try to definitely find organizations, even online, you know.
00:23:24.615 --> 00:23:30.981
Try to find support groups or teachers and other instructional designers, because they're out there, and if they're not out there, start one.
00:23:30.981 --> 00:23:40.884
Just, you know, once a week, check in, you know, because it can be lonely, but it doesn't have to be Right.
00:23:41.205 --> 00:23:45.038
Yeah, you just have to make the effort right and reach out Of course.
00:23:45.038 --> 00:23:45.942
Absolutely.
00:23:45.942 --> 00:23:46.963
Yeah, I love that.
00:23:46.963 --> 00:23:48.047
That's great.
00:23:48.047 --> 00:23:51.825
So we know technology is just it's huge right now.
00:23:51.825 --> 00:23:59.079
So what do you see as some of the benefits and drawbacks of integrating different types of technology, including AI, into the curriculum?
00:23:59.099 --> 00:24:11.728
Because we know AI is, it's not going anywhere, it's staying AI is here to stay and it is developing at a lightning speed, which, again, is both good and bad.
00:24:11.728 --> 00:24:13.608
You know, a bit of a concern.
00:24:13.608 --> 00:24:15.990
I don't want to say bad, but a concern.
00:24:15.990 --> 00:24:22.662
The good thing is is like I'm really liking what I'm seeing with the medical breakthroughs and all that and some of the tech.
00:24:22.662 --> 00:24:24.240
You know, just the automation stuff.
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:32.326
So maybe it could help with educators or like lesson planning and filing and all that and just make the you know.
00:24:32.326 --> 00:24:41.104
So we'll be more focused on the teaching is that you can be more focused on the teaching and the and, rather than so being bogged down in paperwork.
00:24:41.104 --> 00:24:50.325
And it also gives you an amount of research so you can get the amount of answers you can get to common issues.
00:24:50.474 --> 00:25:01.744
Now, the drawbacks are especially if you're dealing with chatbots, which are what we call orange language models, like ChatCBT, claw, gemini, perplexity.
00:25:01.744 --> 00:25:10.061
They're all orange language models and they have some great capabilities, but they also have a tendency to hallucinate.
00:25:10.061 --> 00:25:11.398
What do we mean by hallucinate?
00:25:11.398 --> 00:25:15.701
It's not giving you entirely accurate information, right?
00:25:15.701 --> 00:25:34.602
So this is why, when we're using it and I definitely think it's good to use this, that you know these things, but to do it, you know, with a healthy sense of skepticism and not relying on 100.
00:25:34.602 --> 00:25:40.230
So, you know, if, if you're an educator, I wouldn't have AI, do your entire lesson plan.
00:25:40.230 --> 00:25:48.482
Now, what you could do is say, you know, here's what I'm doing, here's my lesson plan, here's what I want to do.
00:25:48.482 --> 00:25:58.079
You know, help me, come up with some brainstorming ideas of how to do it differently, what can I add, and then take it from there.
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:08.884
But I would not, you know, do okay, design the lesson plan and cut and paste it and then, you know, submit it, because one it doesn't.
00:26:09.595 --> 00:26:13.980
Ai is again a language model like Jad, cbd and Claude.
00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:23.730
They're not, they don't have creativity, they don't have the intuition, they don't have creativity, they don't have the intuition, they don't have the experience.
00:26:23.730 --> 00:26:33.026
So, um, the other day I'm just giving you a thing I was like, um, I wanted to create, you know, my, like an intro class.
00:26:33.026 --> 00:26:34.180
I was just wanting to see what it can do.
00:26:34.180 --> 00:26:39.525
So, give me an intro lecture and it was telling me what to say, which had some good information.
00:26:39.525 --> 00:26:46.623
But then it was telling me you know, use these different hand gestures to mention rapport and.
00:26:46.643 --> 00:26:47.064
I just was reading.
00:26:47.064 --> 00:26:48.247
I looked like I was pantomiming.
00:26:48.247 --> 00:26:53.762
You know I'm like this, would like students wouldn't feel.
00:26:53.762 --> 00:26:55.266
They'd be wondering if I'm okay.
00:26:55.266 --> 00:26:56.146
Yeah exactly.
00:26:56.248 --> 00:26:57.169
You know if I did that.
00:26:58.056 --> 00:27:00.797
So I think it's important to go to grain of salt.
